Derrick Mein & Gary Fitzjarrell : The Game Only Works Well When Everyone Respects It

Recording Glitches And Introductions

Have you ever wondered what happens to start in the show when you still overlap? What makes a really great creative course? We actually recorded this episode. It is recorded.

It is recorded. Okay. For the last 15 minutes.

They don't say recording. So we got Gary Fitzgerald. What?

You motherfucked everybody in Georgia while it was recording there. I mean, everybody's going to hear that shit.

Yeah. I'm glad it wasn't recorded. So uh I got Gary Fitzgerald and Derek Mine on, and uh, we're just gonna talk about things, man. We've been talking for the past 15 minutes, and I figure we better start this before we miss all the good stuff. Gary over here. What are you drinking, Gary? Coffee? Water? I saw some bag hanging out of it. What are you drinking? Tea tea.

That's why the Asperger doesn't have a rainbow flag in the background with drinking tea like that.

That's some damaged-looking woman with a crow on my fucking cup, so you know.

Sobriety, Chemo, And Uncertainty

So you uh you said earlier that you had stopped drinking.

Yeah.

Can anybody I don't know if anybody's gonna believe that or not? I mean, I I didn't believe it at first.

Stop drinking, got a got some ish, got some uh it wasn't like my liver was shutting down. It wasn't I didn't quit because I was an alcoholic.

You know, I quit for other reasons, but you know, been off, been off a little bit.

If anybody's wondering, even though he's sober, he's still an asshole.

Yeah, I mean personality didn't change.

Nothing's changed. You look like you're in shape. What have you been going to the gym or something?

Chemo. Chemo, chemo and a sunburn. No, I'm skinny as fuck.

You sound like you're doing okay.

I'm okay. They're trying to figure it out. I got diagnosed with some shit back in uh October, and they just kind of really haven't said much about it, and uh, you know, it looks like it was missed diagnosis, and I was treated for some other stuff with chemo. Um, and then I'm in between treatments right now.

Oh what's that? That would be terrible to be mixed diagnosed and have to go through chemo when you really didn't have to.

Well, the first the first diagnosis was like, hey, you're gonna die, and you've got two to four years to live. So let's, you know, I will take I will take the chemo over over, hey man, there ain't shit we're gonna be doing. You're gonna end up in a fucking chair and uh on a breathing tube eventually. So I was like, no, we're not. No, we're not. But there's a lot of people in this world that are probably pretty thankful. And I'm not people not saying people that love me, the the few people that love me. I'm talking to people on my enemies list because if they were on, you know what I mean? Because if if the diagnosis was real, I was going down the fucking list, motherfucker. It's right here. You know, I carry it with me. Oh, yeah, I'm always with me. Adding up, dating, you know, moving people around. You just have to wait till that comes comes to light, son. Just just keep watching Fox News, you're gonna find out.

Training, Tournaments, And LA 2028

Derek, what you been doing? You know, kind of the same old thing. Um been uh been trying to relearn how to shoot after switching guns and uh trying to shoot any tournament I can, but hadn't uh hadn't been much in the sporting plays world, but a a lot in trap, trying to get back uh in contention to uh stay on the team and be ready to go for LA in 28.

But at least you're in well, I don't know if that's good or not that you're in the United States. You probably like going over there.

Yeah, you know. It doesn't matter where we're at, competition's competition, but with everything that's been going on in LA, you know, you you gotta wonder, is that really a good place to be? That's true.

Um, so I was Gary, you were talking about you're not shooting as much as far as clay targets. You're you you're sticking to the other stuff. Well Derek's talking about he's been shooting a lot of trap. What's what's what's up? Fuck you on the trap.

No, I've just you know, part of what's going on with me, I couldn't can't find the trigger, can't feel, got some stuff, so I've just kind of like instead of dropping a crown grade on the concrete, I've just stopped for a while. You know, let's let's see if we can't fix this. Uh FLC's kind of chose kind of decided to go on a different direction here. Um we this is the last year for the Coonpecker.

Um and uh is that because of what's going on? I mean, is it with you or is that just because you don't want to do it?

Partly, partly. Um part because of health, and then just we've got a lot of businesses going on. A lot of you know, I got a big solar project we're working on. Uh that's gonna take up some time, and you know, and then Derek and I talk about this.

How Sporting Clays Culture Shifted

The I don't know, man. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but maybe somebody should tell them. Uh Derek, I mean, the world's the the the group's changed, hasn't it? The the the game has changed, the personality's changed, and I don't quite I don't When Gary and I started shooting, everybody's shocked because they love the game.

And they wanted to do everything they could to be a part of the competition and trying to win the event. And the more we've progressed and the more clubs have given the shooters with their entropy, the more self-centered shooters as a whole have gotten, and they get so focused on themselves that they disrupt the enjoyment of the game for other people. Um, you know, they get in the way and like give me an example of what you mean.

I mean I understand what you're saying, but give me like an example.

There's so many rangers out on the course anymore, you know, and and I drive one, so I can't say too much, but they just keep getting bigger and bigger and louder, and people leave them run all day long. Like last week at the Cardinal Center, there's a guy in his ranger squad in front of me, let it run the entire time, it was 81 degrees. Like, you know, it's not hot, it's not cold, you know. Is it necessary to leave your cart running the whole time? You know, that things like that, you know. I uh I watched a guy drive through the bean field. You know, it things like that being so disrespectful to a club that tries hard to put on a good show and give everyone a good time, and uh the the lack of respect is just incredible in today's game.

I'm assuming the bean field wasn't supposed to be driven through.

Yeah, no. The the guy needed to drive about 75 yards of gravel to go around the bean field.

Yeah.

Something changed, and I don't know, you know, the I I don't understand it. I really don't, you know, you always everybody throws that uh blanket statement, well, you know, you're dealing with the public. Yeah, we understand we're dealing with the public, but normally when you dealt with shooters, they weren't the public. You know, that wasn't the you know, pajama pants, Walmart crowd, and you dealt with a different breed of people, and I don't understand it. It's like why are you there? I mean, what you drove across the country or whatever to shoot this competition. Our main word is competition, but you could give a fuck less about the competition. I want to shoot as much as I can, drive my ranger as fast as I can, you know, steal as much water as I can. Um, you know, it's weird. It's just it's just it's it's no rude.

It's rude, it's very rude. Well, I mean, what what made it get that way though? I mean, what made it get that way?

I I think it's just the continual addition of new stuff that a club gives trying to one up the previous club just to in hopes of gaining more attendance. You know, um and I I think I think there's been some disconnect in more numbers at the shooter and uh bringing in more money to the club instead of just trying to provide the best what you can for what you got. And you know, why not be as profitable as you can be on what was there instead of trying to add more to bring in uh you know uh 1200 shooters instead of the seven or eight hundred. You know, really do a good job with the seven or eight hundred before you start adding on.

Well, yeah, I mean I mean Yeah, you're not wrong.

Well they've been they've been talking over the past few years about how fast the sport's growing. You know?

Yeah, there there's there's segments of the game that are growing. You know, you trap trap is 20 years ahead of us in their cycle. They started adding in the satellite grands, and now they've got two satellite grands in each region. And you've got those chutes and the grand American, and even the state chutes have really taken a hit in the ATA world. Yep. You know, there's a couple that are still big, but the state shoots are dying off too. Like I I think sporting clays is heading down that same path with the regionals. You know, the regionals are getting big, US opens big, and nationals is big. There's very few other big chutes. You know, you got the shoots in Florida and that's it.

Yeah, it's a consolidation of what we've got. It's you know, the the the end of the thing, end of the day, you look at your numbers of what your total register targets are from year to year to year, to year, and you'll see that it's not growing as much as you think. You're just this is a shoot, but everybody's gonna go to those regional, they're not gonna go to the rest unless it's in Florida. I mean, Derek could tell you there used to be a lot of fall shoots. Not a lot, but there was winter nationals, or yeah, you know.

There were always three or four afternationals that that were good shoots, and uh those don't exist anymore. Some of that I think is nationals is late enough in the year that you know you're in well into hunting season when nationals is over. Um I I missed the days when nationals was in September. I I feel like that was a much better time to have nationals. It was hot in San Antonio, but you didn't have to deal with weather systems coming through. You know, we only had the one year that it rained in.

Yeah, 90, 95, 94, 96 or something like that.

Yeah, it's an old sport, man. It's you know, it's it's just like with everything else, though. I mean, when something changes or something gets known about, kind of like this has, there's gonna be a ton of people that come into this. You know what I mean? And they're not like the old school guys.

No, right, and that's yeah. We're we're we're into several generations of evolution in Gary's and my time in the game, and that generation is about seven years. People come in, they're in the game seven to eight, maybe nine years, and then they they go on.

I like the Big Rangers. I like the Big Rangers, and the not the lifted ones, I mean the air conditioned ones, what I'm talking about. And uh but I mean I get it. You know, some of those, it's hard to get some of those things down, two of them, especially on a cart path. You know, you get stuck.

Well, there's no etiquette and it backs up everybody. There's there's no etiquette to a lot of this stuff. I mean, you know, obviously I think that's yeah, that's it.

That's my issue with it. It is etiquette. I got that. They have no etiquette with the big rangers. Like they they just do what they want. Um, instead of being respectful of everybody else on the course, they only care about themselves and they uh they don't care what it impacts.

Safety Lapses And “Facebook Experts”

Well, well, the the etiquette on everything, I mean, going from the rain rangers, you go to shooting five stand guys walking out of the station while you're still shooting. Um there's I had uh last year did we set US open last year, right, Brett's? I had to tell a guy, I think I finally told him, if you don't open that gun, I'm gonna kick you off this course.

And you know, you watching the gun manners, watching guys get out of their ranger or their whatever, the you know the guns put together, you know, and it never opens it, and it's just an overall rude, you know, and and you know, you always hear a lot of people they they'll they'll shoot their last pair, they check the shells and instantly close the gun to turn around and walk out of the station.

Yeah. Um pay attention to that shit because it happens more now than it did that I can remember years back. Just I mean, except for feedback.

Even five years ago, that didn't happen.

If you talk to these guys, Derek, they have no background other than they got some gun, they bought a gun, bought this gun, they started four or five years ago. These aren't lifetime shooters, these aren't guys that started as a junior, right? Um, picked a gun up, started shooting. And they have no no etiquette, no safety etiquette, no etiquette here.

A lot of them didn't start as bird hunters. You know, that's when we were when we started, everyone came from the bird field.

So yeah, I mean I you know, I don't pay attention to it like that, but I'm uh I know what you're saying, I've seen it. You know what I mean? I don't pay attention to it like you're talking about. It's there. But why though? But why is it like that? I can remember when I started eight, ten years ago, it wasn't like that.

Because no one no one does anything about it. Um, and eventually that's gonna catch up with us. We're gonna have an accident.

We're gonna have a bad accident.

We've talked we've I rem I remember the guy that was putting shooting a 20 gauge and moved to a 12 gauge, you know, he was shooting a 20 gauge, whatever. I guess he had 20 gauge shells still in his pocket, he moved to the 12 gauge, dropped the twelve the 20 gauge shells down in the gun, and then dropped the 12 gauge shell down in the gun.

Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. I mean to the hospital. That's what you're kind of talking about.

Yeah, guy about blew his hand off last year at Nationals.

What what what about all the experts on uh that post that Tristan put up of the Browning that exploded?

Yeah, yeah, that was a good one.

That fucking social media cracks me up. So Tristan Stubbs was down at Gateway, and he hears this pow and he saw the barrels go up in the air. I mean, the barrels went up in the air, and he they go over there, and the old guy had like a scratch on his face, and he took this browning, whatever it was, I don't know. You know, just just I mean, this gun disintegrated at the receiver, right? And Tristan puts it up on the Facebook. And how many guys commented, oh, that's a barrel obstruction. When we knew 100% that the guy had even admitted that he thought he uh mixed up some pistol powder, rifle powder, and loaded up uh you know, 19 grains of 231 ball or whatever the buck he loaded in. Yeah. And uh all the Facebook experts were like, oh, it's barrel obstruction. And then Derek, how many have you gotten single shots yet? That's our fall project. We're gonna detonate. Remember you said you're gonna try to find them. We're gonna detonate.

Yeah, I haven't found any yet.

We're gonna put how are you gonna do that? 20 gauge, we're gonna put a 20 gauge in a 12 gauge. We're going to uh put a wad in. This is all different guns. Put a wad in it. Uh I'm gonna t a slug in it, tig some metal down the barrel or whatever, and then so it's 100% barrel obstruction. What else we're gonna do? Load some pistol powder and some shot. We're gonna blow up about six guns and then look at the explosion and what they look like just to see what you know. We're gonna tell science, man. Science, we're all over that shit.

But Gary and I do

Cold Weather Shell Velocity Experiment

best. We science stuff.

We scienced a bunch of shotgun shells. We froze a few. I don't know if we've ever talked about that. Him and I froze a bunch of shotgun shells and then shot them through a chronograph. That's pretty interesting.

Yeah. It uh it proved why America's shells are the best. All all the American brands had less than a 10% drop in velocity. Uh, a lot of the European stuff was uh 25-30% drop. And uh one one brand that really people really seemed to like was 300 feet per second slow.

Yeah, he's got all the data. He's got all the spreadsheet shit on it, and it was pretty it was pretty cool. I mean, we shot three or five. What did we do? What did we do, Derek? Three or five. We did five. We did five. We did five at the over by the heater, and we lasered them, they were like say 75, 80 degrees, so normal competition. And then we s we froze uh five in the deep freeze, whatever deep freeze goes to.

Yeah, we we got them down to where the laser, yeah, the laser thermometer, they were under 32 degrees, exterior temperature of the shell. Yeah. When we put them in the gun.

And they were cold soaked, I won't say 24 hours, but like evening cocktails. 12 hours.

Yeah, we put them in faster for yeah, put them in at 8, 9 o'clock, and then uh shot them at 8, 9 o'clock the next morning.

So, what what was the purpose? Just because you like the science experiments?

Yeah, just seeing what the gold does to powder burns and velocities and and how that stuff, you know, it's always been an argument. Yeah, warm shells.

So what shell what in the that dropped three or four hundred? What was that?

I'm not gonna name brands. I ain't gonna say I'm not into that.

Okay.

Let's just say the American stuff shined in that test.

Yeah.

The big three were better than anything else.

Yeah, I I don't wanna I don't wanna answer hate mail when this comes out. Well bullshit, you need to try the whoa, that was the old powder, you know, no, I'm not doing that shit against it.

Yeah, no.

What Makes Fair Target Setting

So Derek, you were just at the regional. Tell us how that went up at the Cardinal Center.

You know, it it wasn't bad. Um they did a they did a decent job. Um some of the targets were good, some of the targets weren't. Kind of like every place you go to. You know, ever everybody's got their opinion on how things are. Uh I felt like some of the events, the hard stuff was too hard and the easy stuff was too easy. Um you know, there was not a lot of middle of the road average targets what you shoot most places. Like it was it was either hard or easy. You know, not a not a lot of just steady.

Give me that give me an example of some targets that were just didn't make any sense to you.

Yeah, on uh on the blue course there was one little edge flopping target that didn't travel 15 yards out of the machine, but it was coming kind of quartering towards you, and I it was over 30 yards to where it hit the ground. So you didn't have much time. Um you know, kind of a trick shot and then um full spring off a tower quartering away where it's you know 35, 40 yards to the tower and not crossing a whole lot, you know, stuff like that. Um there was uh on the prelim there was a a true pair of teal where it was fifty yards to the close trap and eighty yards to the far trap, and they were both going up and away. You know, stuff like that that doesn't necessarily make for good competition. It it it becomes luck at that point.

What would you have done in that situation, Gary?

Shot the trap. I I didn't shoot it. Like I said, not been shooting, you know, for the can't been shooting a few more ring games. Uh I just setting setting a course is hard, man. Setting a course is hard. You know, you gotta be careful not to get better.

Yeah, uh, one of the things at the regional is that property's fairly flat. There's not a lot of terrain to work with. And uh, so it it's it's hard to throw a good good course, you know. You you get a little repetitive at times when it's flat and wide open, you know, there's not much you can do. Um, so that that did make it tough for the target setters to set a function.

Only so many things you can set without repeating yourself in the opening.

Yeah, it's it's hard, and like I was saying earlier, I said you you gotta be careful not to get better than you are when you you know guys get a shotgun, shotgun's not in their hand, and like, ah fuck, I could hit that. Bullshit, you could. Don't set it. You know, don't set it. You know. Um, yeah.

Like I said, I I didn't I think I would just get me a golf cart, Gary, and I would put put two traps behind it, and wherever I stopped, I just let them both off.

I've done that before, and sometimes it works out. That trap fell off. You know, it trap fell off there.

Some of the better courses I felt like I set at Powder Creek were uh were you know not moving the trap a whole lot from where it was, just making it a different target, and the course came out pretty good.

Yeah.

That doesn't happen every time either.

You think people overthink it?

All the time.

I'm talking about like the newer guys, maybe they just overthink what they're doing. All the time. Yeah.

You know, I yeah, the more I'm around it, the and the you know, the more I set targets now. If you keep it simple and you make people move the gun and change speeds a little bit here or there, you don't need to throw all this big long fast stuff. You just change speeds, change eye angle, make them move the gun, and people end up being happy as long as they can see it. And uh, I think at the end of the day, if you give people a course that challenges them all the way through without beating them up, and uh and your visibility's good, everyone's gonna leave happy, you know, for the most part, except for the people that all they know how to do is bitch, because that's what they're happy doing. They're just not happy people.

Well, I'll

Fun Courses, Props, And Old Memories

tell you this. I I went to the shooters' championship down here at the meadows, and uh you didn't go, Derek. Did you not go?

No, uh, we had a selection match up in Michigan that week, so I uh I didn't get a go.

Well, those targets, I'm telling you right now, I have not seen a I did I hadn't had that much fun, even my 12-year-old hadn't had that much fun shooting targets in a long time. I mean, it was really, really, really good. And, you know, Bill and Kevin, I guess, were the were the target setters there well on the main event. And uh it it was it was super good. You should you missed it. I mean it was I mean, I know you had just selection max, but it was a it was a good shoot to go to.

Yeah, I've heard good things. I I I've heard that it it went well and that the targets were good. Um I haven't talked to anybody that didn't enjoy themselves, so you know, I'll give the Meadows credit on uh on putting on a good event.

It was funny. You know, Kevin said a course, and every station had something different. What I mean was one station had some uh goose decoys. The next station he done took I don't know how many sets of antlers and screwed them to the tree. I mean, and the next station he had a a moose, you know, like a moose target. I mean, there was just something on every station that you you had no idea what you're gonna ride up and sell. But that's what made it fun.

Yeah, I was complaining about someone shot one of his duck decoys.

Well, he came up to me and he said, You see, he had a rabbit station out there. And he said, You see that rabbit sitting right there? He put a little pink bunny rabbit out on top of a hay bale. He said, everybody everybody shot that rabbit right there. I said, Okay, well, and he got it was there's you could see where all the pellets have been spraying this rabbit. But that's the first thing he said to me was the rabbit kept getting shot. But it was fun, that's what made it fun. That's why I liked it. You it's something different. You don't see that. I have it right. You go you just pull up to a station and see a bunch of goose decoys everywhere.

Well, I mean, once again, going back what him and I are talking about, we used to.

I mean, it used to be we used to shoot out of a boat on springs.

I mean, you shot yeah, you shot in a pit in the ground, and then you know, things were different. It was a different. It seemed like at a point that sporting clays was kind of a break from the monotony of trapping ski. You know, you went there to to just you had some fun, but you also had a mentality that was completely different because you had guys that shot for money. You know, they didn't want to move up in class because they wanted to make money moving up in class. They weren't in a hurry to get to fucking master and you know, then suck. Um, but I don't know. Things have changed, man. I don't know. It's the reason I've you know I've gone to the ring games, it's the reason this is the last year for the Coonpecker. You know, we're but we're more on the ring games, you know. Different breed of people. I mean, that's why we just spent all the money on the pit and then close that bigger bar and fireplace and all that shit. Because, you know, me personally, and once again, that is my farm, family farm that I grew up on. And you're a guest, and it's just when the the ring game shooters say thank you. You know, am I wrong, Derek? You know, they don't matter.

I mean, they they they might bitch about some stuff, but they they will always respect the property that they're at. You know, they they always want to leave it better than than what it was when they got there, and that's you know, that that's what sporting clays used to be.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what brothel these guys' mom moms worked at, but you know, but apparently you know a different caliber of person, my mother at least taught me some respect, you know, and you don't be a complete dickhead and don't tear shit up and leave the grounds in better shape. You know, you know, don't throw your fucking water bottles on the ground, you know. A thank you would be nice, you know.

Gratitude, Complaints, And Social Media

No, I mean it goes a long way. I mean, and I hope, and I'll say it because I don't give a fuck, but you know, a thank you makes a lot of difference on these owners, these guys that run these clubs. It means the world to them. If you just say thanks for trying to shoot, you know, thanks for doing a good job, guys. You know, don't tell us why the fucking Jesus Christ, man. I had a guy complain that that up at Northbrook didn't have enough ice on the water. He gets some ice out there in coolers. That water's not cold yet. Did you get it out? I'm not fucking kidding.

I bet he got it out there, Derek.

Oh, I bet I did. Yeah, you know. Rubb my balls over the cold water I was gonna give the motherfucker. Here you go, sir. Right here. You know, take a big drink, sir.

So what do you think about you think you're talking about social media earlier? Do you think social media has something to do with a lot of this?

Oh, absolutely. You know, social media has caused a lot of problems in this world. Because everyone I agree with that, everyone posts the good, no one ever posts the bad unless they're complaining about something that somebody else did. You know, they yeah. Weird maths, you know. That's uh that's all it is. You you don't you don't see the truth through social media.

Yeah, everybody wants to be an influencer.

Yeah, you know. I mean I I mean Gary was Gary could never wait to see the the Monday morning BJs after shoots.

Oh, it's so weird. You know, the progress, the status upgrade, the status updates of how your shooting's going, because the world gives a shit. You know, if you you know, you know, nobody cares. You know, like I told Dub the other day, he was getting off you know, when he when he strike get gets a strike on a ball, he'll get this look on his face. I said, Dub, nobody gives a fuck. I said, the other team's happy to see you pissed off. And other than that, nobody cares. And it's just kind of like a lot of this social media shit. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody cares. Really, nobody cares. We're not following your your journey through the shooting world and your climb up the ladder to mediocrity and a fucking niche hobby. Nobody cares.

Nobody cares, you know. Pro staff in my mom's basement, man. Woo!

But you know, all right, so let's look at the flip side of that. If it wasn't for social media, there wouldn't be also there wouldn't be a lot of the stuff that there is.

No, you know what I'm saying? Bad cave, it's cavemen the day they invented fire. There's some cavemen that have learned to cook with the shit and heat heat their little fucking cave, and the other cavemen are trying to fuck it and they burnt their balls. That's pretty much it. You like that analogy, Justin?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I like that analogy.

Kind of real world what Gary's talking about. Some of the good stuff that's come out of social media is we now have some almost respectable payouts at our national championship. You know, um, payouts of the shoots like next year, the Western Regional in Tucson. I don't know if anybody's really paid attention to the payout schedule there, but they're putting some money back. And uh I think I I think that's the piece that has been missing from the game. That you know, ever club's been so focused on providing the experience that the competition and the reward for shooting good in competition has been left behind. And you know, hopefully, because of some of the social media stuff, hopefully that that piece will come back to the game. Um, I think and I think that's part of part of why the game was good when when Gary and I were kids, is there was a reward for doing well. And now most shoots you get a candy dish for doing well.

Well, I mean, we're we're spending money like you know, we Derek touched on earlier, we're spending the money on all the uh you know the niceties, the coutremonts, and all the other bullshit that goes with it that we don't need. You know, you know, of course, Brett always said, you know, this year's extra is is is next year's necessity.

Prize Money, Payouts, And New Formats

But um, yeah, I mean, I I tell you a little interesting story because I'm gonna shoot the NRA World Championship. And, you know, uh hope me, I'll be here by then. I mean, hopefully I can fight, get stronger. But anyway, so for 400 bucks, there's all these events, uh, and they supply the guns and the shells and stuff like that. It's USPSA, IDPA, that kind of rifle. Anyway, what I'm getting to is for the amateurs, for the pros, it's cash. And for the amateurs, it's prizes. Good prizes, not socks, not browning socks, which I won a couple times at Nationals. I kind of like the idea of spending the money on you know, do we really need fruit? You know, do we really need, you know, do we really need all this shit?

You know, um everyone's got their ranger and their Yeti cooler in the back. They can bring their own snacks.

I mean, how cool would it be? I mean, I've still got a barber coat that I'm gave the dub and Motorola radios and stuff like that from when they used to have the Jeep Claybird classic. Fuck, dude, that's 30 years ago.

That yeah, that was an incredible, incredible event. Um I know dad went to a couple of those. Um one was in uh Columbia, Missouri.

Yeah, I think Malamore Hunt Club in down from Louisiana Hannibal area, they had they had two of them. And it was great. You know, it was entry fee was I I don't remember the entry for fee was a 91-92, but you know, you got Beretta shotguns, you got Motorola radios, barber shotguns, there was boots, gift certificates for boots. I I'm not for certain from a sponsor standpoint. I mean, you can give away re take it off retail price and give away wholesale goods. I I don't know. I I really don't know.

But yeah, I mean, we talked about this the other day, you know, is is having a hobby class and a competition class, you know, with two different levels of entry fees, where if if you want to win the trophies and the prize money and that stuff, you gotta pay the competition fee. And if you're there just to shoot the targets, you get credit for registered targets, but you don't get any all-American points, you don't get any punches, none of that stuff, you know, and have have the sponsors donate prizes and stuff um for their sponsorship fees, you know, that goes to that group. Is is that something that we should look at in this game?

Well, what they're doing over the NRA deal, man. You've got three classes. Works pretty good in archery. Yeah, you got junior, you got juniors, pros, and amateurs, and the pros are there for money, same entry fee. There's not a reduced rate, but you get you know, the amateurs are pretty are shooting for prices. You know, it's kind of a neat deal. I I you know, I was kind of excited about it. I'm scared to death to shoot the biathlon and the the 10-meter air rifle. But I think I think if I can get you know on the paper target, if I get one halfway to the center, I'm gonna shoot the others over the top of it and just say, yeah, ragged hole, motherfucker, ragged hole.

So you're gonna shoot air rifles in with NRA.

Air rifle, biathlon, precision pistol, USPSA, IDPA, NLR 22, uh uh PRS uh rifle, cowboy action, fee task, that'd be fun, sporting clays, and there's like two others. Um there's like a three-gun or two-gun or whatever, how many guns, um, and for 400 bucks, you have to shoot their guns, which is just dreadful because I looked at the shotguns and oh god, one of them is gonna be a weather doather be whatever their over and under is, or whatever they're Orion or Athena or some shit, and uh the fee. I I'm just curious to see how good the targets are gonna be. I'm not expecting much, you know.

But I mean, I I'm hoping that uh that I can get to go watch the the shit show that is Gary shooting that.

Oh God, can you that would be funny?

You know he's gonna be running his mouth to him.

Oh, I'm gonna be shit talking. Oh, yeah. Um I'm gonna be shit talking.

He's gonna be with a BB gun.

Fuck.

I mean that's that's are you gonna wear that fancy suit like they wear, you know.

The rules are pretty like strict. Um, I don't know if I can even shoot a bring a shooting vest. I think it's like no other equipment other than what is provided for you. I mean, besides shooting glasses, I guess. You know, you know. I mean, it's it's gonna be interesting. You know, you know, I I talked Matt Gay into going with me. Um, I'm pretty sure we're gonna be the only two shotgunners there. I think it's gonna be us and a bunch of guys with the the the silky satiny shirt that has all the logos all over it, like a fucking NASCAR, you know. You know, I mean I I know that's what they were. It's like when you gotta be in NASCAR at noon, but then work your Walmart greeters job by by three, you know, whatever.

But um so Derek, you're talking about shooting in 28 in Los

Gear Talk, Glasses, And Switching Guns

Angeles.

Yeah.

What are you doing in 25 to get ready to I mean, what do you do for two and a half, three years?

Um, you know, we've got a world championship coming up um in Greece in October, and uh I got a World Cup in Italy that I'm going to next month. Um, but you know, right now I'm just kind of trying to maintain where I was um when I got home from Paris. And uh, you know, toward when I get close to the world championships, I'll really buckle down and and try and get my game strong heading into there. Um but the the important stuff doesn't really start till next year. Uh yeah, the 2026 World Championships will be the first quote is given out. Um, so that uh that's really when things start getting important.

I noticed you had I think it was last year. I think it was right around the time you were at the Olympics, you had a line of glasses come out. Yeah. Is that right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh so how how's that been going for you?

It's been good. Um they uh the sales have been really good for Ranger on my signature series. Um, you know, they're it's it's been a been a really popular couple lens colors for them.

Um did you just tell them what colors you wanted or how did that work?

Yeah, we uh we we took a a couple colors and uh and tried to you know mix up something that was similar um without actually copying them. And uh you know the basically what we did was we we took the the brown lens that they'd always had um and changed the base color from an orange to a red. Um I feel like that gave you a little better contrast on the target, and then the brown helps keep out glare and and allows your eyes to relax. Um is kind of what we were shooting for. The other thing I did was uh I I switched guns um at the end of last year. I uh started shooting a Krieg off. Um been really happy with that. It's been some growing pains, of course, but uh I'm I'm starting to get settled into it. Um I uh the last half of our last selection match, I really really kind of felt like I settled in and had confidence in uh my uh my scores showed and was able to get back in the final and and win another national championship. But um it's still a work in progress getting things ironed out and we'll be ready to go uh go for next year for sure.

Did you have to weight down the the stock at all? No you have to put weight in your stock? No, I didn't. You didn't feel like the gun might have been a little heavy in the front.

I put uh I put one of the Kriegoff weights under the foreend, um, is the only modification I've done to it, other than my regular winning stock that I always shoot.

I know Gary's moved to the 870 Remington.

869 Wingmaster. Wingmaster, baby. That was a gun. That was a gun that that that we never had growing up, man. That was that was that was looked down on that my dad looked down on that gun back when I was a kid before the internet.

I hated that piece of shit.

You know, I I can honestly say uh we have never owned an 870 in our family.

I've got one over here in the safe, just in case y'all need one.

31 TC. We've got some Ithacas. Got a 31 TC.

You got some what?

Got some Ithacas. 37.

I don't have one of those. Just 12 gauges, Derek. They had an ultra light, didn't they?

Well, they they did the whole line.

Yeah.

Um 16, 20, 28. Um I don't know that they're I can't remember if there's an Ithaca 410 or not.

We had a deer slayer. I remember when remember they came out with a rifle barrel. The Ithaca had uh had a 37 deer slayer, and it was a rifle barrel.

We didn't do slugs in Kansas. We were rifles, so yeah.

We had we had one, and I don't know, it might be around here someplace, but it was always model 12s, and there is a there is a 31 TC. Damn 31 uh Raman had put a hell of a damn piece of wood on that, those 31s. Hell of a piece of wood. And they pumped like they pumped like glass, man.

How do you like the trigger? Have you you've shot Krigos before, though? Yeah. I mean, do you like that trigger is just crazy to me.

It's good, man. It works. Yeah. You know, that's that to me is the best piece. Is as long as you do your maintenance on it, it it's gonna work for you. Good gun. You know, there's the only time that they're not gonna work for you is if you neglect them and don't take care of them.

Well, that's most everybody in sporting clothes, right? Yeah, pretty much. Uh maybe other than you. Yeah. Don't ever clean them. Their 20s are now 35.

I've never clean a choke. If you ever clean a choke, I don't think I've ever cleaned a fucking choke, man. You know.

You know, I I've cleaned the the residue off the outside of the the ported chokes, but that's about it.

Yeah.

I mean you gotta take them out every once in a while. The old Seminole Gunworks spreader choke, you had to clean it out. I had one that I shot a lot and uh didn't clean it for a few years, and and it might like 12,000 and it was supposed to be negative 50.

I had one.

It was new, you could take a 12-gauge shell and stick it in the end of the into the choke. Yeah, you could take it.

I've got some seminole gunworks chokes, but I didn't know they made a negative 50.

They made uh they called it a spreader choke, and you could you could stick a 12-gauge shell in the end of it.

Yep. Yeah, it was tapered, but it was tapered.

It built up with it. It built up residue crazy.

Quail on it with it.

I shot a lot when you're a kid out of my auto.

Quail on it with it.

Gary, you you stop drinking.

Health Updates And The Africa Trip

Yeah.

Are you gonna start dying?

I hope so.

Horrible, man. I have dreams about it. You know, it's like, and the dream is dub makes me a whiskey. That's it. Dub brings me a styrofoam cup of Jamison and Sprite. You know, that's the dream. You know, just and then it and then what happens. And that's it. I had to drink the Jameson. You know, no drag, no dragging bumps out of it, or you know, you know, fucking Kate Upton doesn't come walking in naked. No, it's just me drinking fucking Jameson, you know. You know.

Out of a styrofoam cover.

Oh man, there ain't no on a on a hot day or an afternoon, there's nothing better. Of course, I'm a scotch drinker. I drink the shit neat, but Jameson and Sprite's pretty good. But it's big giant styrofoam cup packed full of ice, you know, good one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and then crack a seven up on top of it, and it's good. But no, I haven't had a drink since all this shit started, you know. You know, and it's frustrating. I mean, I've had like a beer, but who the fuck drinks? I mean, beer's not alcohol.

You watch land man, that's not drinking.

Yeah, yeah.

Did they tell you you had to stop drinking, or is that something you just decided to do?

They cut I cut out, they cut me out all the sugar because of inflammation, but I felt so shitty through this chemo and stuff that I really didn't want to have a drink. I didn't want to be hung over. I mean, not necessarily hangover, but you know that you know, slow going of a morning that you need a you know, you know, a little bit of water to get going. You know what I mean? You just don't feel good. I felt bad anyway through eight weeks of this shit. So you're like, I just don't really want to have a drink. You know, I miss it, but I also don't want to feel, you know, not that I ever fucking drank an excess. I mean, I've drank excess pride for the average person, but not for me. But I just didn't want to feel bad, you know. I mean, one, you know, two or three doubles, that's a good, good, uh, you know, that's a good e afternoon, you know, four or five. Yeah, you know.

So you're on the way back up then. You're good. You're going back.

Feel good. Um, I took some blood work today, and they're looking to see if it's gone, if things are out, um, and then we can move on the next step. And um, you know, down about 30 pounds, big giant Irish head, like Derek said, still here. But I went from 208, 210 to weigh about a buck eighty, five, buck eighty, something low eighties. Um, feel good. I mean, other than my hands don't work and you know, shit like that.

But yeah, he's he's anorexic. He's not eating, you know.

Eat nothing but protein and vegetables.

What do you go someplace a little water? And that's about it.

You hadn't been down to the brass bar or whatever you can.

Yeah, I go have a filet there at least once or twice a week. Filet, a big thing, green beans. And you know, we ate chicken. Derek came over, they got damn good fried chicken son. You know, you know, it's good fried chicken.

Yeah.

You know, pork chops are what they're so what's what's on what's next for you?

What what are you doing next? Eat just getting butter and staying where you're at.

You know, trying not to be crippled, you know. Um, you know, got that shoot. Dub's dub's getting his gun fitted uh at the grand. Uh, we're going to Africa here Saturday. Gonna be in Africa till July. Um and then when we get back from uh Africa, that that safari, then then we'll start worrying about clays and shit.

You know. What are you going to Africa for?

I'm going to pay the bills. I'm going to pay the bills on the little bastard. But um he'd kill up to seven species of planes game. Uh, you know, kudu, buzzbuck, blah, blah, blah. You know, um, if we get time, we're gonna try to shoot birds the last day. So, like sand grouse, pharaoh's dub, that kind of shit, guinea fowl. And I'm just I'm just going to make sure the bills are paid. You know, it'll be fun. I mean, you can go as long as you're not killing big five or whatever. Um we were at this at lunch with my taxidermist. Uh, you know, for the price of an elk hunt, for less than the price of an elk hunt, you can go kill your planes game. Now, minus your travel. You know, we're flying business class because, you know, why not? But um, yeah. You know, elk hunts, what, eight, ten thousand bucks now for a good elk? We're gonna kill seven species of planes game for six thousand dollars. So you know, you do the math on that bullshit.

That ain't too bad. No, no, no, ain't too bad.

You know, so where are you shooting next, Derek?

Family, Kids, And Avoiding Burnout

Um, I go to Italy for that World Cup. I leave July 6th for that. Um, and then I'll go straight from there to England for the World English, and then back home and uh shoot a couple of the regionals this fall and and nationals, and then that world uh world bunker championships in October as well.

How old's your daughter now?

She's nine. Just turned nine.

Is she shooting yet?

Um she shot a BB gun a little bit. Um she killed her first deer last fall. Um so that was exciting. Use using a crossbow.

Um does she have any interest in it? You know shooting.

She's uh she was always quick to say no, but you know, this last weekend a couple people asked her and she kind of kind of thought about it for a little bit. So, you know, maybe she's thinking about it, but um she hasn't really shown a lot of interest. Um, but it's it's one of those things I I'm not gonna force it on her. You know, if she wants to do it, I'll make it happen. But you know, if you force her to do something, then she ain't gonna like it. She's gonna resent it.

Well, Gary, if she starts to shoot, we need to find her a good coach.

Gil, Gil Ash.

Don't you put that on me, Ricky Bobby. What don't you put that on me, Ricky Bobby?

That's a good one. No, Derek, Derek's right. That is kind of funny. I mean, if you make a kid do anything, baseball, whatever, shooting, they ain't gonna like it. You know, they ain't gonna they're they're not gonna stick with it.

Yep. It's gotta be their idea. They gotta make it fun.

I think I think that happens with a lot of the a lot of the young shooters in this game is um they get started and they enjoy it right off the get-go, and then it turns into just like every other youth sport. Um, parents just push them harder and harder and harder, and you know, make them go practice and make them do all this stuff and uh make them go to all these tournaments, and it it ends up burning them out, you know. I I was fortunate that if I went to a tournament, it was my choice. You know, I I never never was forced to go. Um, it was always my choice to go. And of course, naturally, I wanted to go to everything I could. Um But the the tournaments weren't available like they are now. All big tournaments. You know, you you had the the weekend uh monthly shoots and and then nationals and US Open and your state shoot and maybe maybe a zone shoot, and that was about it. Yeah, very few two-day shoots.

Yeah, there was I mean, I remember going to more state shoots than I remember going to I mean, the me when when the U.S. Open started becoming a thing, that was that was new. I mean, you you oh let's go to US 92?

92, 92, the first one. Yeah, yeah. My my first one was 97 down in Houston.

Fourth July weekend. Fourth of July weekend in Houston, Texas. Think about that for a moment. American Shooting Center. They they have the one tree, the one tree on the whole place, they have George named. Yeah, George.

You know, the property's below sea level, so it just held the humidity in there.

God, it was hot. Jesus Christ, it was hot.

Yeah, Houston's hot.

Oh, dude.

I got a friend of mine who lives in Houston, and he was talking, I was talking to him the other day, and I was talking about how hot it is in Georgia. He says, Man, you don't even know what hot is. I said, Well, I thought I did until you told me you reminded me you lived in Houston.

I remember wiping powder off my face. The the it was it was so hot, you were sweating, and then it was evaporating on your face, just like just like salt coming off you. But it was it was four July weekend, man, and it was just it was brutal, dude. It was brutal. Yeah, it was. But uh did you go to Montana the year it was out there at Pulson?

I I did. That that was to me the one of my favorite places I've ever shot. You know, God, it was I don't remember much about the targets, but man, the view off the side of that mountain was incredible.

I remember shooting five stand.

I believe that ranch is for sale.

It is, yeah.

You ought to look at investing in it.

No, I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm good. I got one sporting clay course and I'm slowing that down. But I remember uh shooting five stand and Hungarian partridges came in and flew with the birds, and then uh I saw the movie The Mummy at that movie theater in town there. And there's a good bowling alley too, if I remember right. I don't remember much rather. I remember the that that shit.

But no, it was cool, man. Yeah, yeah. We we all went to we all went to the bowling alley. Um area 51 was big at that time, and uh, I think I spent most of that evening playing area 51. Um I think me and Nathan Packish about beat the game, or maybe it was JB Canney, one of them. JB was there. We almost made it all the way through the game.

Hell, I think I shot with Packish. I think I shot the main with Packish. Um but uh yeah, it was it was cool, man. It was a cool going trip out there. Uh, we went through the Badlands and Custer and um Saw Mount Rushmore. I mean that that that's your core memories, but like Derek said, when you grind out to a tournament every fucking week, whatever, you burn out, dude. And it's the same thing. I don't care if you if a if if a grown man can get burnt out on it, so will a kid. That's why guys get tired, that's why guys quit. You know, how many times can you go to Nashals? How many times can you go to MM? How many times can you go to to Brett's at Northbrook without just getting bored out of your mind, you know?

Um and and it's it's not a knock on the facilities doing that or how they put on a shoot. They always do a great job, but when you when you go to the same place over and over and over again, eventually you lose that that excitement with it. Um, you know, I I for one, I I love going to new places. And unfortunately, the way the game is gone, new places are it's really, really hard for them to get in in the cycle of having regionals or US opens or anything like that. And uh, so it you know that's that's one of the things that keeps me intrigued with going overseas, is I get to go go see new places. And uh that that's what I really enjoy.

That's I mean, that's kind of what Dub and I've been doing. You know, he's been shooting a little bit, shooting a little bit more, but that's kind of what Dub and I've been doing with some other stuff is just doing something different. I mean, you know, there's you know when you're born and there's a good idea that you're gonna die, and there's this dash in between, and we're just trying to fill in that void between between the you know birth and death, and and you know, there the it's not a it doesn't matter, whatever you do, just go enjoy it because you know if there's an afterlife, try not to be an asshole. If there's not an afterlife, then what you did between this point and this point, right in here, is all you got. So go have fun, man. It ain't your fucking job, you know. You know, um you know, as I said, even though your Monday morning shoot review acts like it's your job.

I want to thank my sponsors, you know.

You know, maybe if we're looking out on me, you know, how'd you finish?

That's not important. How far were you off winning it?

26 targets down, but you know, still I got a hat and a sticker. But but you know, I mean that's kind of why I like the ring games, is because I want to hang out, I want to meet some people and bullshit and throw some dice and you know, hang out after. That's why the coonpecker was, you know, why we kind of started the coonpecker, you know, to have some social time. That's why we have a band. And you know, that doesn't appeal to some people, but you know.

Those are the things that that don't necessarily exist anymore. Um, that sitting around hanging out at the chutes, you know, everybody's such in a rush to get to their next event, they don't have time to sit back and enjoy it.

Pointless.

They don't have time to go sit under the pavilion and and uh bullshit enjoy lunch. They they try and scarf something down driving to the next event. Why? Although sitting under the tin at the uh at the pavilion do has their own hazard hazards.

But nice work that segue in there, baby. Oh shit.

Negligence, ISSF Rules, And Enforcement

Well, I think that kind of goes back to that whole safety thing that we were talking about earlier. That's exactly.

Yeah.

Wait a minute. I think I know what you're talking about, but bring it up to talk about it again. I've said all I'm gonna say.

But that's that goes back to our etiquette shit. Is that's not an accident. There is no accidental discharge. It's a negligence, negligent discharge, you know. You know, if you're in the shooting stand and you close your gun and your gun goes off because of some mechanical issue, that's why we have stands. But if you if your gun's loaded and it's and you're not in the stand, fuck you, man. I mean, that's I'm sorry. That you that's not by accident. That's just dangerous, man. That's not by accident, dude. That's because you just you fucking didn't care, didn't pay attention, or whatever. So yeah.

Well, if you're shooting uh, if you're shooting a uh over under, it's kind of hard to load your gun. Like how how does it end up loaded and not in the stand? Because you're not fasting. You know what I'm saying? Because you're forgetting the rules of safe. I mean, you just like load it and you like load it and say, All right, I'm gonna stick it in the cart and wait till the next round. I mean, what do you I don't get? Or lean it up against I don't know.

You know, not something that could potentially um play into this is when you're at an ISSF event, uh, and it's even USA shooting is is pretty big on it. If you're not in a designated aiming area or on the field, you cannot have your gun closed and practice mount or any of that stuff. If you get caught doing that, you're automatically kicked out of the competition. No warnings, no ifs, hands, or buts, you're gone. I like it. I mean, it's you know, that's that that that goes back to basic gun safety fundamentals.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, can you guys let me ask you a question? Can either of you guys pick an over and under up without opening? I mean, think about it. You go grab an over and under, what's you what's your natural thing to do?

You hit that thumb line. You open it's the first thing you do.

Even you watch G-Dub or Liam, you know, Dub don't even shoot an over and under. You give him, you pick a gun out of the rack, he opens the bastard up. So apparently, going back to raising or what you know, what I'm saying is there is a somebody fucked up someplace. You know, you know, and I just it's just the problem is if we don't like I told that guy up there at Northbrook, you know, open your fucking gun, dude. You know, and you know how I told it to him, you know. I was smiling, but I told him to open his fucking gun up. But the problem is I don't care if I hurt your feelings, if we have an accident and somebody gets shot, everybody's looking at us, you know, everybody's looking at us, and it's gonna hit the news, and then that's just one more nail in the coffin of why, you know, vilify us even more. You know, it it interests us.

You know, and some of this might might be a byproduct of there's not as many hunters getting involved, so they didn't go through a hunter safety course. Not that hunter safety is is that great of a course, um, but it does teach some basic safety fundamentals. Um, you know, and and that could be a byproduct of it. Um I I but I think ultimately it just gets down to people have gotten lazy. And and they uh unfortunately that when people get lazy, it takes a bad accident to uh to remind people of how important some of the safety stuff is.

Yeah, it's it's not uh yeah, I mean, it just I mean it it's kind of like you know you know we are keepers of the game in in more ways than one. Um like I said, I think that's probably what's Derek and I's gripe of the way we've seen things change, change is you know, we we hold this game sacred to the point. I mean, we grew up in it. Um, and it frustrates us a little bit to see it, you know, kind of like guys don't respect it. You know, it's like you know, it's a competition, man. You know, you look back in the time going back through history and you see these old pictures, old paintings and stuff of a bunch of old guys, you know, a bunch of old timers at top hats, gentlemen shooting, right? It kind of lost a little of that, man. You know, the there's there should be a there should be a spirit of competition, not just touching your gun off uh 250 times and then going home. You know, there they're just I I feel like we've lost something. Maybe I've gotten bitter, maybe I've gotten sour, but I believe there's something that's been lost.

Um I think we've we've lost that competitive drive to to be a winner, you know, as as a whole. Um you know, I think that's that's something that has disappeared in the game, is that that desire to win. You know, it everybody wants to win, but I I don't feel like that desire to go out and be as good as you can possibly be is is really there anymore. People are there to just enjoy their time, and that's why they're driving around in a fifty thousand dollar ranger shooting a twenty-thirty thousand dollar shotgun, and uh they're they're in their own world, and you don't have to be there to have a good time, and they you yeah, and you don't have to be good anymore.

You put it up on Facebook, you know, like what we just talked about social media. You don't have to be good, you can go act like it, you know.

But I don't know.

It's just gotten weird, world's getting weird.

The positive thing we get to get is we get to go do it, I guess.

Well, we get to go do it, and and I think I think what we're talking about, Justin, and not put words in Derek's mouth here, but we want it to continue. We don't want to see it crumble. You know, we'd like to see. I mean, the Brits have kept it going for a long time because they've kept halfway tradition. Um, I just I just I worry about

Costs, Youth Retention, And Club Survival

it. I mean, things are getting higher, boys. I hate to tell you, um, you know, we we think it's gonna stay at this certain level right now, but everything's gotten higher, not just a shells and the and the targets everything associated with it gas hotels lodging you know all the shit so I don't know how this thing's gonna keep going shooting shooting was never a cheap sport that's why it's always been the sport of kings but shooting now if you especially if you put a a uh an inflation calculator on stuff and go back 30 40 50 years shooting's as cheap today as it's ever been and I think that's a byproduct of the companies kind of subsidizing the game more or less trying to keep costs down to get as many people involved as they can um it it's it's he's not wrong I mean the thing is how how you know of course there's always a lag between prices going up and then when the reality hits I think we're seeing a reality starting to see reality hit um everybody wants to brag about these kids shooting um I'm sorry man but how how are these parents going to keep you know it's hard and these people are complaining about costs when they're only shooting 50 rounds for that what what is it Derek? What's the organization that dub shoots on the fall you clay target USA Clay Target League or something um yeah I mean you know is it sustainable you know you know how many people can really afford to shoot uh you know it it more than a couple years you know it's yeah it it's I mean especially if you got more than one kid that's involved in it yeah I mean you know you know yeah they're not cheap they miss the point on you know it's it's the kid that the only kid the only person shooting is the kid grandma and grandpa and dad and everybody's funding the money or mom and dad funding the money um you know is it sustainable uh what happens when you know how long can we keep the growth of the kids going do we do we retain the kids I mean that's always the argument I have with all these um youth organizations is can you please give me the data where it benefits you know down the road when we've got SCTP been around since 2003 you know so we're 22 years of that organization and you're telling me that the sophisticated word world that we live live that we live in somebody hasn't thought about doing a poll you know maybe they're not doing that poll for a reason you know it you know I didn't shoot SCTP when I was a kid um there was uh school tried to get a a team going when I was in high school and and I helped them out a little bit um but it was just kind of in its infancy um you know I shot in college but I there's less than one percent of the people that I shot in college with that are still shooting you know um and most of them they didn't shoot all through their 20s and till their mid thirties they kinda came back a little bit for a couple years and now their kids are old enough that their shooting's put on the back burner again you know and I I think there's there's a big miss in pursuing the people that have the time and finances to shoot you know why why are we not doing something to bring in the 45 to 50 year olds like nobody puts any effort into that group you know my age my age to to retirement age you know that's the group that gets neglected and nobody ever puts any effort into bringing that group into the game that is we've talked about that with other people you know he's wrong he's not wrong and and it it it's understandable why a kid coming out of college can't keep shooting you know they're trying to build a life but you know we need to make an impact where they want to come back when they get to a point in life where they can but I I I'm not sure how you can go about doing that um other than you know you you gotta remind them of what they did when they were a kid you know remind them how much fun they had when they were shooting as a kid you know and maybe it just brings back bad memories and they want to stay away from it. My mind went a horrible place and I'm gonna leave that alone. But no I mean he's right I just I I don't know we're gonna have a correction the correction's coming um it just you know you hate to see anything fail but like I said this is a recreation and you know this is a hobby and there's only so much money I mean right now if you go look I mean the data's there you get somebody smarter smart enough to figure it out but I mean it's like this boys you know um you figure out how the average age is and the average age probably I don't know what percentage of the guys that shoot are fixed income because they're retired you raise that price up of inflation of everything else those boys got less money to shoot and that's how it is you know um you know I mean like I said it's just you know we've watched a drop off in this area we've watched uh you know just uh every year ever since COVID things have gone down so you know I'm gonna shoot as long as I can't Kansas started dropping off even before COVID you know it in the 2000s we'd have 300 people at the Kansas state shoot and now we're lucky if we get 120. Yeah you know it it's yeah yeah there was a point in time when um Texas and Georgia were the only two state chutes bigger than Kansas yeah Wisconsin went down Wisconsin used to have a big giant one and then it just kind of it just it's it's gone down it's not been oh shit not been much you know 2009 2010 it it just seems like it's gone down I might be talking out my ass but I do know their numbers not not huge like it used to be well everyone retired and moved out of the north that was up there shooting carrying on those shoots. Yeah I mean yeah you do you did have a lot of guys you know but I don't know is what it is I mean you know we're we're we're backing off on the Coonpecker this is our last year you know we've got a lot of stuff going on um and it's just kind of you know for us it's just for us it's just not gotten just it's not worth it to fight it and uh we're gonna stick more on the ring games and for us you know but you look at our area we've our numbers are down and then you know some of these clubs are getting 20 and 30 guys show up you can't keep the doors open on a registered shoot for 20 or 30 guys you know no gotta throw targets man I don't know that's the only way it works math math has to math math has to stay open it's getting it's getting harder and harder for the small clubs to stay open.

Making Time And Keeping It Enjoyable

Yeah just just that daily traffic and in our area we've lost a lot of guys that want to travel that want to go to bigger shoots that want to get better they're content on shooting very very casually and um those guys aren't going to burn it burn up ammo period so it's where you're at yeah how are you feeling about the game Justin you've not been shooting as much talk about guys getting you know like you know you came into it and put you on the spot yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I just well you came in what about seven years ago I know it's longer than that that's kind of the same I don't I don't I don't know what anyway but yeah it's I've just got stuff to do.

You know what I'm saying? I've got kids in ball and and uh my wife just graduated uh college finally it took her all this time to graduate college no I'm kidding but but you know she went I told her go back to college and and get a degree in something you want to do and I've you know we've been doing that and uh you know we got school ball and we just everything it's just everything combined work and I just don't have time to get away kind of like what you're just talking about. I mean what's your you know I just don't have time I can't do everything. You know I gotta work I got to make a living so it's it's hard to do it all and that's that's the spot that I'm in.

And I think like going back to Gary and I when we were younger part of what made it the game accessible was it was just the local weekend shoots. So you you could make time to go you know drive a couple hours down the road and shoot for a couple hours and then go home and still have time to do whatever else you needed to do. There wasn't this big migration across the country to each regional once a month or every couple weeks. If you've got a lot going on in life it it's hard to hard to put in the effort to to make that trip.

Oh yeah well I mean yeah I mean like us look like us going to Africa we didn't go to stay home for a you from a U.S. open in a regional because obviously I gotta pay for two people going you know that's Africa. You know it sounds horrible that paid for the the trophy fees on the animals you know that's just how that's just that's just how it is but you know you people have so much money and it's where they want to spend it. And if you're shooting for a while and it's all exciting like Derek said I like going to new places um you know eventually you get tired of going to the same places and you find other avenues for that disposable income it's not really hard to figure that's good out. Anyway I got on a roll because I'm gonna I got a little bit