In today's episode, we take another look at the 2024 Southeast Regional held at the Forest City Gun Club in Savannah, Georgia. We look into various aspects of the event, including the targets and their levels of difficulty, the weather conditions, the course layouts, and any logistical backups encountered during the competition.
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Speaker 2: In this episode we're going to talk about the
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Southeast Regional.
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There are a lot of people that left there scratching their
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heads.
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We're going to talk with some of the guys involved with the
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tournament and find out their thoughts.
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Is it what they expected it to be, what they thought about the
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targets, the backups, and would they do anything different if
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they had to do it again?
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Welcome to Shotgun Sports USA.
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On the phone with me today, I have Zach Garettas and Chip
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Dekel, the two guys that set the main event at the Southeast
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Regional at Forest City Gun Club in Savannah, georgia.
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I also have Zach Keenbaum on, which set the Thursday prelim at
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the Southeast Regional, and I have one more, dominic Grossi, a
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shooter.
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We're going to all talk about the Southeast Regional.
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There's a little controversy about this shoot how hard the
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targets were, the backups and we're going to address it all on
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this episode.
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I think we need to call it the good, the bad and the ugly.
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Zach, what do you have to say about the tournament?
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I had a good time.
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The weather was great, the food was good, the targets were hard
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.
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What do you have to say?
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Speaker 3: I would say that we dodged a bullet early on in the
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week.
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You know the tournament got started with feed task on
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Tuesday.
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Feed task targets were fairly decent Tuesday and
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Wednesdaynesday.
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Wednesday, the wind started picking up um it blew a storm in
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um started storming about, I don't know, one o'clock in the
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morning, 11, 12 o'clock in the morning on on uh thursday
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morning and it didn't really stop raining until 10 in the
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morning.
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So solid, solid, 10 hours of rain, nine or nine or 10 hours
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give or take.
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Um, there's estimated between.
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You know the.
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The area got between four and seven inches of rain and the
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ground took a pretty good hard hit.
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Um, for those of those of the folks that actually came to the
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shoot, they probably seen it.
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They seen some mud, but it dried out rather quick, believe
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it or not, by the end of the day , I think.
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Chip, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was about
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3 o'clock in the afternoon.
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We started all along the radio about a water truck, didn't we?
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Yeah, yeah, about 3 o'clock.
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So you know the grounds dried out fairly quick.
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Some areas stayed underwater for the remainder of the shoot,
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just some areas.
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It doesn't drain that well.
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That was kind of it didn't hinder the shoot at all, but we
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were kind of because we did a delay on Thursday.
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But we were kind of because we did a delay on Thursday we had
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to do two massive rotations of the Thursday prelim, which is
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Zach's course.
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We had to do two big rotations for that event to get it through
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through the day without having to do anything.
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Friday morning that event went pretty well.
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Friday morning that event went pretty well.
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We had some massive squats on there and it did take a long
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time.
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I think everybody expected backups on Thursday.
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We rolled into Friday.
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Friday ran pretty decent.
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There was a few backups here and there.
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You know normally and I think I think the good shooters that we
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have on here would agree that you know the Thursday and Friday
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prelim and most big major shoots is not only for the
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shooters to get ready as, but it is for the trappers as well.
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You know cause you're pulling these trappers from all over the
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place that may may not have as much experience.
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So the Thursday and Friday prelim is a good experience in
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introduction to the prelim and to the sport.
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Saturday we had some major problems as far as backups.
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In the main event, all of the management-wise, we were
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scratching our head trying to figure out what the heck was
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going on.
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All of the management-wise, we were scratching our head trying
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to figure out what the heck was going on.
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Rick Hemingway, myself, chip, just everybody management-wise
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trying to figure out what in the world was the backups.
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You know there's Zach says it there's a lot of other people
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that say it's three-day main, three-day main.
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But you know this club, we throw a lot of tournaments for the
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youth and we do maximize the rotations and we throw a lot of
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charity shoots that are way more than what we had out there on
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the course over the weekend and it doesn't take near as long
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with 100 birds.
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And we were just trying to figure it out.
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We finally figured out the issue.
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It took us a whole day, unfortunately, but we figured
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out the issue.
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Um, it took us a whole day, unfortunately, but we figured
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out the issue and made sunday a lot better for everybody what
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was that issue that you figured out?
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we had it.
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We we have always, always used our own employees to load traps
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for the main event in the prelims and we had some college
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kids that were helping us out, that were experienced, that had
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worked at a lot of other clubs in Georgia, and there was just a
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little bit of disconnect that we really wasn't getting that
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message relayed to us.
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So we were just thinking that you know, the courses were too
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crowded, the pairs are too slow, you know, four pairs stacked on
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top of one another, but they're all true pairs.
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But we weren't really pointing the finger that it was a loading
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issue and what was happening was the loaders were just
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keeping the machines full and doing whatever it took to keep
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the machines full, whether it's stopping a squad interrupting,
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touching that machine more than once or twice in a rotation.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, just just some.
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You know, like you said, it was just communication.
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You know that.
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And y'all got that fixed for the for Sunday, for sure.
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I mean it was.
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I never had an issue with a backup.
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Really, I mean I had a couple of backups but it wasn't that
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bad.
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So let's start with Thursday, because I I got there Thursday
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but I didn't shoot the Thursday prelim at Zach Keenbaum set.
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But the only person on this podcast right now that shot it
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was Dominic.
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So kind of give me a rundown, zach, I guess, of how you set it
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and Dominic, and what you thought of the targets.
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Were they too hard?
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Were they just right?
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I heard a lot of good things about it, but let me hear what
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you have to say.
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Speaker 5: I said it.
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You know I've I've shot and taught at Forest City a lot, so
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I tried to set something that some of the local people hadn't
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seen in some of those spots, but that's kind of impossible.
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As much as we changed that course, but I just tried to keep
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everything visible, tried to really take in mind the
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background and keep the bird in a consistent background so
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people can see it.
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I definitely threw some speed and some edge, but none of the
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edge was past 25 yards so it was probably the least distance of
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any course of the week if I had to guess.
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But it was good.
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Good, I thought it was good.
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Speaker 6: I don't see what Dominic says yeah, I mean, in
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most of these courses that you see that are on the more
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difficult side, you add about two of the four difficulty
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factors being speed, angle, distance and edge.
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When you get to three, you typically border on making a lot
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of people angry and I think zach did a good job of balancing
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.
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You know some speed with a little bit of distance, but no
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angle.
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Or you know angle with some edge, but it's like 20 yards.
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You know there was a good mix of everything.
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I think you shot just about every different sporting clays
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presentation you would want to see in a 15 station course.
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Um, there were, I mean, just due to the the nature of where
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some of those stations are, I mean a little bit of visibility
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depending on, you know, the lighting at a particular time of
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day, but that's true of probably any course you shoot.
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In the southeast that has a woodsy sort of environment to it
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, you know.
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Know there's, there's always going to be, trees and shadows
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that you're working through, and that's something that I think,
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in my opinion, is just an acquired skill more than
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anything, to learn how to shoot in those conditions, because you
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know, for a Texan like myself, we shoot in a lot of flat open
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spaces, trying to see things, strobed through shadows and, you
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know, hit highlights with the sun coming through the trees in
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certain spots.
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It changes the way that you think about those presentations.
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Again, I don't think that's.
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I don't think that makes it necessarily any more difficult.
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It just makes it different and it's a skill that a lot of
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people don't necessarily have, especially at an entry level.
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It different and it's a skill that a lot of people don't
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necessarily have, especially at an entry level.
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So if you haven't experienced that before, a moderate set of
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targets with that added in can make it, you know, probably five
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or six targets more difficult for an average shooter Zach.
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Speaker 2: what was, what was HOA on that course and what did
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you expect?
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Speaker 5: Brandon Powell shot a 96.
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I was expecting I was thinking of something around 95 96, so he
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, uh, he definitely hit that you know, uh, we'll get into friday
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the friday prelim, in the main in just a second.
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Speaker 2: But uh, we talked about this.
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We've been talking about this for the past few days and the
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target difficulty there.
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I I had a problem with it, okay , but I don't shoot a lot or as
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much as I used to.
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I don't even practice.
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So when I go to a shoot, I expect myself not to shoot that
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well, but I still get mad at myself.
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You know what I'm saying.
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So I know I can hit this, but I didn't hit this, and I think a
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lot of people that are complaining about the targets
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being too hard or have mentioned the targets being too hard are
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probably in that same boat.
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Would y'all agree with that?
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Speaker 6: Sure, it's worth keeping in mind that you know
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you have to.
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You have to understand that the difference between you know
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somebody that doesn't go out and practice versus the people that
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are doing this pretty frequently in their lives as a
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quote-unquote professional, that gap gets wider and wider every
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single day that we shoot.
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It's really hard to find a course that is set to be able to
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cater to somebody that hasn't shot in two years or just goes
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out and practices once every month or two, with a person that
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is shooting every week and shooting.
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You know the upper echelon of target setting on the
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championship tour on a regular basis.
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You know trying to find a middle ground there is getting
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harder and harder as time goes on, because people like Zach
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Keenbaum continue to get better and better and better.
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Brandon Powell is making everybody in the sport better
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and better and better, and the person that hasn't shot is still
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going to shoot exactly the way they would have shot, you know,
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know, 10 years ago versus now.
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So being able to find that balance again is going to be
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increasingly difficult as time goes on and at some point
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there's going to need to be a conversation about, you know,
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regional championships being for the masses or being for
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determining the best shooter in that region, and I mean, we're
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trying to find the best of both worlds, but again, it's just
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becoming a very hard task to do successfully.
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Speaker 2: How does it, when you have a regional like this and
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you have, like Dominic was saying, the masses come to this
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because they want to come to a regional, but the targets are
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set stiff because we're trying to determine a regional champion
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?
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What does that do for the club?
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Or what does that do for business, as far as setting them
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too hard and several people getting aggravated with it?
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Speaker 3: Well, I can honestly sit here and tell you that you
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know I knew that the targets were going to be a little bit
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stiffer, but you know, I'm, I'm, I've been a shooter as well for
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13 or 14 years, maybe even 16, 16 years, and, um, you know, it
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has always kind of been me as a shooter.
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Know that, I know that when I'm going to a regional um, that
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the target's going to be a little bit more difficult than
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they were, like, let's say, the Seminole cup or or something
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like that.
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You know, um, because there is there's, there's a little bit
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more at stake, um, you know, you got people chasing all American
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points.
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You got people trying to make, make the team, the all state,
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all that other stuff.
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That's a big weight factor when you throw a regional or a world
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championships or a national championship.
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So the difference between you know, if we were to have our own
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standalone shoot, versus what we set for everybody to shoot, I
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mean, in all honesty, I think I really did tell Zach that I
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thought that his Thursday prelim was right, in line with, you
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know, if you think that the prelim is supposed to get you
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ready for the main event, zach's prelim did a really good job at
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that.
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It's just the thing of it.
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You know, there was enough separation where there were some
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targets that Zach didn't throw on that.
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But then Rick did throw them on Friday, um, and it was
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unscripted.
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Zach didn't know what we were throwing and Rick didn't know
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what what we were throwing as well.
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Speaker 2: I shot the Friday prelim going into Saturday and
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Sunday.
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The targets just felt like they were harder, like they were
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bigger targets, like you know.
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It wasn't like they were fast or or age, it was just like they
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were way out there, wasn't like they were fast or or edge, it
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was just like they were way out there.
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And some of the true pairs none of them were bad, but some of
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them were like really big targets and I can remember the
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people that I was shooting, shooting with, they were just
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missing all of them.
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So it's, it's uh, I don't know.
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I mean it's, there's a fine line there, I guess.
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I mean you want to, you want to crown a regional champion and
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you want to have challenging targets for those guys that can
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shoot, but in the same breath, do you make it easier so that
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the guys that are there for fun have fun?
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I don't know.
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I'm glad I don't have a gun club, I'll tell you that Because
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I don't know what I would do.
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I don't know if I would just get mad at the people that were
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mad or if I would like.
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Speaker 3: I mean it comes to a point where it's I don't know
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what I would do, you know Well, I mean I could, I could speak
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for myself and, and Chip, you can speak for yourself after I
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say this, but you know, I think that my intention wasn't to make
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people not have a good time.
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Um, there's a fine line as a target setter.
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I think that we were really close to having a really or set
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of targets that I felt like I would enjoy as a shooter.
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So for me personally, I don't like as much lollipop like that
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give me.
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You always hear the saying a give me station, a give me
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station, a give me station.
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But realistically, you can miss just as many targets on a gimme
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station.
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I mean, I remember just a few months ago at the seminal cup
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shooting the easy go prelim and there was a lot of gimme targets
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that they had set on that prelim and I've missed more of
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them than I did the harder stuff .
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Um, and and it was, you know, lack of focus had a lot of stuff
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going on on that Friday personally, but I like a course
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that's going to have my attention and I think that if
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there was not as many backups on Saturday, maybe the scores
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would have been a little bit different, but there was targets
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out there.
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I remember Anthony and I forget who I talked to about this, but
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Anthony made a comment to me at the US Open when it was at
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Backwoods a few years ago and he said the best thing that I can
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do to tell you how to shoot some of these targets on this
00:17:00
specific course was just double-tap, the easy one on a
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true pair.
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You know, and I didn't, I didn't ever want it to get to be
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that way.
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You know, I think when played a lot, of, a lot of heartache in
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it.
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I'm not going to use it as an excuse because you know you do
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set targets based on the weather prediction or the wind
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prediction, which the wind prediction failed us
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tremendously.
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For this event.
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It's supposed to be a west-northwest wind and they had
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been calling that for over eight days.
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There was going to be a west-northwest wind at 12 miles
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an hour and it didn't take it very long, on Saturday morning,
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the first day of the main event, for it to be a south wind,
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which is, you know, total wrong direction.
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On some of the sides, of my course, it made the targets a
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little bit easier and on the other side it pushed them out,
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but it wasn't supposed to be a south wind.
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That's not an excuse.
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That's just an observation.
00:18:00
That's what happened.
00:18:01
It was supposed to be a west-northwest wind at 12 miles
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an hour on Saturday, all day Saturday and all day Sunday.
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That did not happen.
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Speaker 2: Wasn't the wind blowing the same direction the
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whole day for the most part.
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Speaker 3: The wind was blowing the same direction the whole day
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of Saturday.
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It was supposed to be a west-northwest wind.
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Speaker 2: But everybody shot the main in the same wind.
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That's what I'm trying to say.
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Speaker 3: Everybody shot the wind.
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Everybody shot everything Thursday, Friday, Saturday and
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Sunday, and and about the same amount of wind speed.
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You know give or take the direction, whether it was West
00:18:42
or East or South, but we really didn't get a north wind, like we
00:18:45
were supposed to, but it was all 12 miles an hour or more
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yeah, still had 90, 95, 96 a shot well, and justin, if I can
00:18:54
chime in here.
00:18:54
Speaker 6: I mean I think there's a lot of people that are
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under the impression that hard and fun targets are mutually
00:19:01
exclusive things.
00:19:02
But there is absolutely no reason in my opinion that a very
00:19:07
hard set of targets cannot also be entertaining.
00:19:10
I mean, if I were to come all the way to Georgia from Texas,
00:19:14
for example, and shoot the same kind of stuff that I shoot on
00:19:17
the soft course on the course I shoot back home, I don't feel
00:19:21
like that trip is worth it for me.
00:19:22
I know a lot of people had similar experiences with, for
00:19:26
example, the Western Regional this past year.
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Like I have no desire to shoot that type of target.
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If I'm traveling all this way, I want to shoot something.
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That's kind of going to test my ability and I don't know if
00:19:38
it's just a general perception that if people aren't hitting
00:19:41
targets they're not having a good time.
00:19:43
I don't really ever think of it that way.
00:19:46
I mean I honestly shot pretty poorly this weekend in my
00:19:50
opinion of my own performance.
00:19:51
I was not very happy with how I shot, but it was by far
00:19:55
probably the most fun that I've had shooting a tournament in the
00:19:59
past six months.
00:20:00
And you know, again I get.
00:20:04
People want to hit targets.
00:20:05
They want to shoot up to the best of what they think their
00:20:07
ability is.
00:20:08
But there has to be some acknowledgement of the fact that
00:20:10
you're traveling to an event to to see what you know that
00:20:15
region of the country is like.
00:20:16
In.
00:20:16
The Southeast region is probably the toughest one to
00:20:19
shoot in in the United States.
00:20:20
You should not be going in there thinking that it's going
00:20:23
to be a cakewalk by any means.
00:20:25
Speaker 2: I mean I, I'm saying I'm agreeing with you, uh,
00:20:28
although I disagreed with you while I was shooting.
00:20:33
Speaker 3: Dominic, I think I think what you, what you said,
00:20:36
kind of you know, think back.
00:20:38
I I become manager here in 2013 and um you know, just the prior
00:20:45
clubs that I had managed.
00:20:46
I really didn't get to go out and see different sets of
00:20:51
targets.
00:20:51
I just had to go and set targets that I felt like my
00:20:59
members or my customers would like to see.
00:21:01
And when I got to Forest City, they kind of challenged me to go
00:21:07
out to these nsca shoots and and shoot them, compete at them,
00:21:10
work them and bring home a different set of of style um to
00:21:19
this club to make our shooters here at the club better, um to
00:21:23
get them more involved in nsca shoots, you know, and that kind
00:21:28
of thing.
00:21:28
And I think, to be honest with you, that helped me a whole lot.
00:21:32
So what you said makes a lot of sense because you know, you
00:21:36
take, I guarantee you that you can talk to a target center that
00:21:40
you know in Texas and say, man, they threw this target and I
00:21:43
would really love to see this target here so I can get better
00:21:46
on it.
00:21:47
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I completely agree.
00:21:49
I mean, if I were to go up to, you know, my local gun club,
00:21:52
which is greater Houston, and tell Mike Boyer, henry Velasquez
00:21:56
, you know, hey, I I got to shoot a bunch of true pairs
00:21:59
where I got to shoot the first bird in a spot that's slightly
00:22:02
uncomfortable, which was a theme this past weekend, and it
00:22:06
exposed a massive hole in my game that I really honestly was
00:22:11
appreciative of, like, I mean, you know we're going into the
00:22:14
World Championships here in May and June and you know we want to
00:22:18
be as prepared as we possibly can.
00:22:20
And shooting this weekend did a lot for me as far as telling me
00:22:28
where I needed to improve.
00:22:29
And it's shooting stuff in a position that's slightly
00:22:30
uncomfortable and where I might not normally choose to shoot it
00:22:32
if it were a single or a report pair.
00:22:35
And that's what I'm going to look to shoot the next four or
00:22:39
five times.
00:22:39
I get out to practice at Greater Houston, whether it's them
00:22:42
going out to set that particular type of pair for me or you know
00:22:45
me just trying to, you know, make it based out of the stuff
00:22:48
that we have at the club.
00:22:49
But either way, you know, you know, to Zach's point.
00:22:53
You know you're going out and trying to find stuff unique to a
00:22:56
particular target setter or region or whatever flavor that
00:22:59
you have for that given event and you know adapt your own
00:23:04
shooting ability to be able to accommodate that kind of stuff.
00:23:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a Zach Keenbaum.
00:23:08
I mentioned this to him yesterday.
00:23:10
Team USA right, or?
00:23:11
Or the U?
00:23:12
S as a whole is right up there with the best in the whole world
00:23:15
.
00:23:15
Do you think, zach, that if they didn't shoot targets like
00:23:18
we shoot at these regional tournaments or or the U?
00:23:21
S opens and stuff like that, that they would be as good as
00:23:23
they are?
00:23:28
Speaker 5: Definitely not.
00:23:29
I think, this being a part of our championship tour and the
00:23:32
process that picks our US teams, this tour is the best tour in
00:23:35
the world.
00:23:35
I mean, the Western Regional we shot last month was also very
00:23:39
difficult, but very difficult in a different way.
00:23:42
It was a lot bigger, a lot longer targets, but you're out
00:23:47
in the desert and then you know, we come to the Southeast and
00:23:48
we're shooting in the piney woods of Georgia.
00:23:50
I mean, every one of these shoots is going to have a
00:23:54
different flavor, a different flair, and that is what.
00:23:58
That is what breeds the level of competitor that we have in
00:24:04
America today, and this is all part of it.
00:24:07
Speaker 2: When you're talking about the youth some of the kids
00:24:09
that don't shoot much, or some of the people that don't shoot
00:24:12
much and came to the tournament and they shot very poorly.
00:24:14
What do you say to them about that?
00:24:17
Speaker 5: I've told several students Sunday evening and
00:24:20
since that they are a better shooter today than they were
00:24:24
before that tournament started, whether they realize it or not.
00:24:27
Um, it's not.
00:24:30
I.
00:24:30
I'm a big believer in in getting better at we're not good
00:24:34
at, and learning and learning from the mistakes we make.
00:24:38
And if they have an open mind, that's exactly what's going to
00:24:41
happen after an event like this, after you go home and think
00:24:44
about it and you actually go and work on work on that stuff.
00:24:48
Speaker 2: Well, we know, Rick always sets difficult stuff, or
00:24:52
and I don't even know if it's difficult, it just tricks you.
00:24:54
You know, on the Friday prelim who set the main?
00:24:57
Speaker 3: um, I set the, I set the late course chip set the
00:25:00
woods course, All right.
00:25:02
Speaker 2: My opinion, Chip.
00:25:03
He won the trophy for the most difficult.
00:25:05
I don't know if y'all thought the same thing, but did y'all
00:25:08
give him a trophy for that, Zach ?
00:25:10
Speaker 4: I'll gladly post it on my shelf.
00:25:13
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you this where was the big tall
00:25:17
tower?
00:25:17
I mean big tall tower back up?
00:25:19
I thought it was going to be a driven stand.
00:25:20
Who set that?
00:25:22
Was that you, chip?
00:25:23
That was mine that was uh station nine awesome I love.
00:25:27
I love that missed the whole first pair.
00:25:29
Love the love station thank you .
00:25:33
Speaker 4: That was kind of my whole goal for the whole weekend
00:25:35
was just to try and give everybody a new experience, not
00:25:38
necessarily be hard targets, it was I wanted to make sure they,
00:25:44
the birds, were visible.
00:25:45
You could see them, they.
00:25:47
I didn't put a whole lot of spring on everything, I just
00:25:50
kind of I really beat them more with the technicality than I did
00:25:55
anything else.
00:25:56
So and my, my main goal was after people were done shooting
00:26:01
was I wanted them to step back and be like what did I do this
00:26:06
week and what did I do wrong?
00:26:07
And I want them to fix it, get out and shoot more.
00:26:10
It was mainly my goal behind that.
00:26:13
Speaker 2: But that stuff right there, I don't remember seeing
00:26:17
that anywhere.
00:26:18
Yeah, you know, I liked it because I thought it was
00:26:20
different, like I thought it was going to come over my head and
00:26:23
it didn't.
00:26:24
I liked that kind of stuff.
00:26:25
So you know, even though it was difficult, I still liked some
00:26:28
of the stuff that I saw.
00:26:29
Zach Garetta, let's go to your course.
00:26:31
Uh, you said it.
00:26:33
All right, what did you expect to expect it to to do, and what
00:26:38
did it do, and what kind of feedback did you get from it?
00:26:42
Speaker 3: so you know, um, they're my general, my general
00:26:49
opinion.
00:26:50
As soon as I got to station 15, and chip and myself we always
00:26:53
do this to each other as soon as we get done set, that's like
00:26:55
all right.
00:26:56
What do you think?
00:26:56
What do you think the high is going to be?
00:26:58
You know, and um, and I told him that I thought a 96 was
00:27:02
going to win it.
00:27:03
I thought a 96 would be the high and Anthony shot a 96 on it
00:27:11
.
00:27:11
We did the same thing with his course and you know we didn't
00:27:16
factor in the wind and we thought a 95 would win it and 93
00:27:26
was the high.
00:27:30
You know, looking back on it now , if you could just kind of
00:27:33
rewind and do things over again, I think that on my course the
00:27:36
reason why I got to 96 was because I chickened out and
00:27:41
didn't throw an 85-foot lift on station 14.
00:27:45
I didn't like the way that it was coming across the pond, I
00:27:49
didn't like the positioning and with the wind playing a factor,
00:27:57
it would have been really close to a shot fall problem if
00:28:00
somebody chose to shoot it really early.
00:28:02
But I wanted to try and make it work there and just with the
00:28:07
prediction of the wind it was going to allow me to to throw it
00:28:11
there and not have an issue.
00:28:13
And then when we got there saturday morning and raised the
00:28:15
lift, we had a, we had a backup pair ready to go.
00:28:18
But when we got there, um, I just completely chickened out on
00:28:23
it.
00:28:23
I said we're not going to use, we're not going to use it, we're
00:28:25
not going to do it.
00:28:25
We thought about moving the lift to another station and I
00:28:30
said let's just not do it, you know.
00:28:31
So I think I reached my 96 because of not putting the lift
00:28:35
in.
00:28:35
Because if I had put the lift in, I feel like mine and Chip's
00:28:39
courses would have probably been identical.
00:28:41
It was going to be a difficult pair.
00:28:43
Mine and Chip's courses would have probably been identical.
00:28:44
Um, it wasn't a, it was a, it was going to be a difficult pair
00:28:47
, um.
00:28:47
But I mean, in all honesty, you know you can go, I'm sure Chip
00:28:57
can walk through his course, but you know, zach and I we've
00:28:59
talked the last few weeks about it and, um, you know it, it kind
00:29:01
of almost where, where you start, you know you could it
00:29:05
could be a mood setter on where you start.
00:29:07
So like if you started on station seven, which was a true
00:29:10
pair of just belly cross or income or slightly quartering in
00:29:14
that.
00:29:16
You see that in my opinion those are give me.
00:29:19
Um, somebody told me that those weren't give-me's, but it's a
00:29:23
25-yard target showing full belly quartering towards you.
00:29:27
That's a very easy target.
00:29:30
You had all day in the world to shoot either one of them.
00:29:33
If you started at that station you probably had a good pace.
00:29:38
If you started on station 12 with a true pair of teal going
00:29:46
up and away and quartering to the left, you didn't have time
00:29:50
to shoot an easy pair before you started.
00:29:53
That's what's still different about our game in America is we
00:29:58
all don't start on the same station.
00:29:59
We do for five stand, but we don't do it for fee tasks.
00:30:05
We don't do it for sporting or super sporting or anything else
00:30:07
that we do, unless you're shooting like a European sub
00:30:10
gauge where you start on one.
00:30:11
But you know that in my opinion , I think that plays a little
00:30:16
bit of a factor in it too.
00:30:17
So you know you go back to some of the comments that we've
00:30:21
heard.
00:30:22
You know there wasn't.
00:30:23
We didn't get to, we didn't get to an easy station, we didn't
00:30:27
get to an easy station.
00:30:28
But if you factor in.
00:30:29
You know 20 squads being on there with 15 station.
00:30:33
Where is that?
00:30:34
Easy station?
00:30:35
Because somebody is going to get the short end of the stick,
00:30:39
because they have to right.
00:30:40
But you know.
00:30:43
You go to station one.
00:30:45
Station one was a pair of trap birds that were report.
00:30:47
One was a middie, one was a standard.
00:30:50
You go to station two.
00:30:52
It was a scissor lift, two standard targets true pair out
00:30:55
about 40 yards, showing full belly With a south wind probably
00:31:00
made them just a little bit further than 40.
00:31:02
With no wind they were about 35 yards.
00:31:04
Get to station three had a middie peeling up going left and
00:31:10
a standard target on edge.
00:31:12
You get to station four.
00:31:14
You had a Raboo true pair with a middie that climbed a big oak
00:31:21
tree that was on the dirt berm.
00:31:26
A lot of people said that that was their favorite station on
00:31:28
the course.
00:31:28
Some people said that they couldn't hit the Raboo or they
00:31:31
thought the Raboo was too fast, but the Raboo was 10 yards in
00:31:36
front of you, going away like a trap target and then peeling a
00:31:39
little bit left to get to station six and there was a big
00:31:44
Shondell there with a standard target.
00:31:46
It's you know it.
00:31:50
Just it didn't, it doesn't.
00:31:52
I guess it doesn't matter where you start, there's going to be
00:31:56
some difficulty in there.
00:31:58
You know, for the longest time when I first started shooting I
00:32:01
felt like I always started on the hardest station.
00:32:03
But then I got over that.
00:32:04
You know, some folks tend to practice, but for me here in the
00:32:09
last five years I don't like to practice and Zach kind of gave
00:32:12
me some advice on that and I kind of followed suit.
00:32:16
But you know, we did have my course, had some give me targets
00:32:20
or, and then on some of the report pairs, the one of those
00:32:23
birds was easier than the other.
00:32:25
You know, um, if I was to say the two give me stations, that I
00:32:29
gave you um pair of rabbits which I thought were very fairly
00:32:36
easy, um, there wasn't a whole lot you could do in that hole,
00:32:41
but it was a pair of rabbits, you know, and and Joe, joe
00:32:44
Fennesey told me he said I started on that station, I
00:32:47
missed two birds there, um, and and Joe shouldn't have missed
00:32:51
two birds there.
00:32:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I ran that one.
00:32:54
There's another rabbit on somebody's course that went
00:32:56
along the wood line.
00:32:57
That was chips.
00:32:58
That was a great rabbit, nice and slow.
00:33:00
Yeah, that was Chips.
00:33:05
I'm telling you, I missed it twice.
00:33:06
My son hit it every time but I missed it twice and I thought
00:33:11
I'll just kind of walk out shaking my head.
00:33:12
But yeah, zach Keenbaum question when you go out, what
00:33:18
was your scores on both courses?
00:33:21
Speaker 5: I shot 87 on the woods chips course and 91 on.
00:33:27
Speaker 2: Zach's course, the lake, okay, when you shoot in
00:33:30
the eighties, say example for that course, what is your first
00:33:34
thought?
00:33:34
Is your first thought I shot terrible or those were hard?
00:33:37
What's your first thought?
00:33:39
Speaker 5: I shot.
00:33:40
I was very upset with myself because I was actually shooting
00:33:44
very well.
00:33:45
I was down seven birds with three stands to go.
00:33:51
I felt like I was burning it down because I had gone through
00:33:54
a lot of those hard ones and shot very well and I dropped
00:33:59
three on 15, three, three on one and two on two.
00:34:02
The math doesn't work on that, does it?
00:34:05
I was down five.
00:34:10
Yeah, I was down five.
00:34:11
Speaker 2: So I was just trying to figure out what your mental
00:34:13
state is when you come off that course.
00:34:14
Are you thinking like I just got beat up by myself and I'm
00:34:22
going to be so far behind that it's not going to even be funny?
00:34:23
Is that kind of the thought you have?
00:34:26
Speaker 5: I didn't really know.
00:34:26
I knew 87 wouldn't be like way off and it wasn't after the
00:34:31
first day, but at least on that course, um, I was just upset.
00:34:38
I really misread, or and I made a bad plan on on that first the
00:34:43
number 15, where I dropped the first three and then I was just
00:34:47
kind of shell shocked and missed more.
00:34:49
Um, the targets were just tough enough, um that if you weren't
00:34:56
planning do putting a lot of thought into it before you got
00:35:00
in there, you were gonna have a problem and and we've talked
00:35:03
about the wind but for those that weren't there, this wind
00:35:07
was.
00:35:08
It was the most wind I've ever shot in it for a city, and that
00:35:11
includes the 2018 hurricane regional that we had there um,
00:35:19
the wind was crazy.
00:35:20
I mean, there were gusts of over 35 miles an hour and that
00:35:24
was like that Thursday, friday and Saturday.
00:35:26
So when you're going out there, event after event, and you're
00:35:30
making good moves and you're missing targets, it plays a
00:35:36
definite factor in your confidence and I promise you
00:35:39
there wasn't a soul on that property that's confidence
00:35:43
wasn't a little shaken.
00:35:44
And when your confidence is shaken and the winds keep
00:35:47
blowing, you're doing stuff that you normally wouldn't do and it
00:35:52
puts you just in.
00:35:53
It can be a negative mindset for a lot of those folks and
00:35:57
that only that just adds to it.
00:35:58
So a tough course.
00:36:00
Add in some really, really bad wind over multiple days and you
00:36:07
get what we got.
00:36:07
So what?
00:36:09
Speaker 2: I'm one of those folks.
00:36:09
Do you think that if there was zero wind, how do you think the
00:36:15
shoot would have played out?
00:36:16
Speaker 5: So I shot, I taught on Monday, all day Monday, and I
00:36:20
shot both courses yesterday, both courses.
00:36:24
It would have made a huge difference on every I don't care
00:36:28
who you are, everybody's score If they could have shot that
00:36:31
without wind it was.
00:36:32
They were very different targets with, with with still
00:36:36
conditions.
00:36:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the wind has a lot to play, has a lot to or
00:36:40
has a big part in the performance from everybody.
00:36:42
You know, that's what, no question yeah.
00:36:45
Speaker 6: So in my opinion I mean when I get a lot of wind I
00:36:49
tend to start closer to a lot of birds and treat them almost
00:36:52
more like rabbits.
00:36:53
Because they're hopping around, they're doing things that
00:36:56
require a little bit more aggressive move in a lot of
00:37:00
circumstances, like if you're sitting out there in front of
00:37:03
the bird a significant amount four or five, six feet or more,
00:37:06
you know and that bird takes a dive.
00:37:08
You got to move a lot to correct that at that point.
00:37:10
But when you got a lot of distance and speed on these
00:37:14
birds to begin with, you should be starting out pretty far in
00:37:17
front.
00:37:18
So when you combine those two things you can put yourself in a
00:37:22
really bad spot really quick.
00:37:23
It wasn't a good plan on my part to treat that course that way,
00:37:27
because even though there was a lot of wind, I was starting far
00:37:30
too close to all those birds and ended up shorting a lot.
00:37:33
And again, you know I went out and shot the course again Monday
00:37:38
and didn't have nearly as much of a problem.
00:37:39
But my approach was very different.
00:37:41
So the wind probably had a three to five bird swing on that
00:37:47
course.
00:37:47
In my opinion it could be more than that.
00:37:49
More than that for some people for sure.
00:37:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, zach Grettis.
00:37:54
What are some of the comments that you've heard from shooters
00:37:58
about the tournament and what would you like to say?
00:38:00
Speaker 3: I've heard all kinds of different comments.
00:38:02
I've heard comments that it's over the top.
00:38:12
I've heard comments that may consider not coming back.
00:38:13
I've heard comments that said that it was great.
00:38:15
Like I said earlier, it wasn't our intention to make you guys
00:38:17
or anybody there to have a negative feeling towards me as a
00:38:22
target setter.
00:38:23
Chip as a target setter Rick Hemingway, jake Spangler, eric
00:38:26
Dorsey, any of those folks Mike Bichaud, when did play a factor,
00:38:30
but it's not.
00:38:31
It's not.
00:38:31
I'm not even going to I will take the blame.
00:38:34
I mean to be honest with you.
00:38:36
I feel like if I would have given you one more give me
00:38:39
station on my course, I wouldn't have heard anyone say on the
00:38:45
late course that it was over the top.
00:38:46
I think that if Chip would have given you two give me stations,
00:38:50
nobody would have complained that his targets were over the
00:38:53
top.
00:38:55
The other part of it is and I happen to coach a very, very
00:39:02
successful SCTP team the mindset of people this day and age is
00:39:09
they're trying to compare themselves to a Zach or an
00:39:11
Anthony or a Brandon or a Dominic or somebody that wins
00:39:16
tournaments not necessarily places in the top five or ten,
00:39:20
but somebody that wins tournaments.
00:39:22
They compare themselves to them and they forget that they're
00:39:25
shooting against people in their class.
00:39:26
You know, I remember there was a shoot three years ago or two
00:39:32
years ago that all of us here besides Chip were at, and I
00:39:37
remember going up to Zach and saying I just threw it away on
00:39:40
the first day of the main event and he said what did you shoot?
00:39:44
And I said I shot a 58.
00:39:46
And he said you shot a 58?
00:39:50
And I said yeah, he said you're not off the hunt and I'm always
00:39:56
the type of person that I'm not going to look at scores.
00:39:59
You know I get eager not going to look at scores.
00:40:02
You know I've changed my strategy a little bit.
00:40:05
I look at scores, but that 58 was four targets off of what the
00:40:10
highest score was shot on that course and it was.
00:40:13
It was an even score with Zach.
00:40:16
It was one score under Brandon.
00:40:20
But in myself, in the moment, in the 30 minutes that it took me
00:40:23
to go talk to Zach, I thought that I had just ruined my
00:40:27
chances of competing amongst them for the rest of the weekend
00:40:33
.
00:40:33
Um, you know, I'm not a, I'm not a two or a three day main
00:40:37
event holder, I'm more of a.
00:40:38
I'm going to do good on one.
00:40:40
So you know that was the only day that I held my ground with
00:40:44
them.
00:40:44
But sometimes you just got to take a step back and realize
00:40:48
that you're not just you're not shooting against those guys.
00:40:51
If you're a math class, you are , but if you're in a class
00:40:55
double A, b, c, d or E, you know you're shooting against people
00:41:00
that are what one haven't yet shot, or two.
00:41:04
You haven't seen their score yet and you don't know how well
00:41:07
they did.
00:41:07
So when you're on that course and you start shooting bad, you
00:41:10
gotta, you gotta grind it out.
00:41:12
Um, and those courses were a grind out course.
00:41:16
Speaker 2: What do you?
00:41:17
Zach came on, what do you think when you've you get a?
00:41:20
Uh, I'm just going to example a , a, b or a a or b class shooter
00:41:25
that goes out there thinking they should shoot 90s and they
00:41:27
start getting mad at this at the course.
00:41:30
Like they, like they will, like we've all done, what do you?
00:41:34
I mean the shit.
00:41:36
They shouldn't be shooting 90s.
00:41:37
You know what I'm saying?
00:41:38
That's kind of what I tell my son.
00:41:39
Like you know, the guys that I've told you all this before,
00:41:42
the guys that win, miss, they miss all the time.
00:41:46
You don't very, you very seldom see somebody straight, of
00:41:49
course, it's a game of missing.
00:41:50
Speaker 5: It's a game of learning how to learning how to
00:41:54
manage failure, because we all fail, everybody does.
00:42:00
Um, you just got to keep it in perspective for them and let
00:42:05
them know.
00:42:05
I know a lot of people talk, they, everyone has this 90
00:42:08
number in their head.
00:42:09
If you go through the nsca, if you go through the shooters,
00:42:14
there are not, there's not much more than than 10 people in the
00:42:19
country that average 90 for the year if they're shooting the big
00:42:23
, the championship tour.
00:42:25
So what you shoot at home is not what you can expect to shoot
00:42:30
on tour.
00:42:31
There's, it's just managing expectations and and it takes
00:42:36
time for people to understand the game and understand that
00:42:40
there's a lot to it and there's, and people don't know what they
00:42:42
don't know.
00:42:42
They don't know the shots they don't know they, they're gonna
00:42:45
see birds that they've never seen, and that's just part of it
00:42:49
.
00:42:49
Speaker 3: It's just part of the journey you know I'm sitting
00:42:52
here looking at scores and the the winner of ed of double a
00:42:57
shot an 86 on chips course and a 77 on mine.
00:43:00
The guy that was in second place tied his score shot an 86
00:43:05
on my course and a 77 on Chip's.
00:43:07
I mean that's a nine target difference where each one of
00:43:14
those guys didn't shoot the same score on either course.
00:43:17
And then you come up to the top and that nine-target separation
00:43:23
isn't there.
00:43:24
Now Brad Sutton Jr shoots a 93 on Chip's course and an 86 on my
00:43:30
course.
00:43:31
I just so happened to be at the station when Sutton finished
00:43:37
and he was kind of down and he said that he just leaked too
00:43:40
many targets.
00:43:41
I had a member that was shooting with him and he just
00:43:43
said he shot really good today.
00:43:45
He was leaking targets but he figured it out the next day and
00:43:49
shot a high on it.
00:43:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something that you have to experience and
00:43:55
I don't think y'all can answer this question.
00:43:56
I don't think that it's going to change.
00:43:58
As far as getting easier at these regional tournaments, I
00:44:02
don't think that the clubs want to throw them easier and I don't
00:44:04
think that the shooters that are going to shoot them want
00:44:07
them thrown easier Is that correct.
00:44:09
Speaker 5: I know the top players, the guys that are
00:44:11
actually going out there trying to win and make Team USA and all
00:44:16
that Everyone that was at Forest City of those guys
00:44:20
absolutely loved it.
00:44:21
Everyone that was at Forest City of those guys absolutely
00:44:22
loved it.
00:44:23
In fact several Joe Pinchin, joe Finesi they thought it was
00:44:32
the best tournament they'd been to in a long time.
00:44:33
So it's just, you're never going to make everyone happy.
00:44:37
But that's the big question.
00:44:38
I mean, is this tour for the masses or is it?
00:44:39
What's the goal?
00:44:40
What's the goal?
00:44:40
I mean, maybe the NSCA needs a mission statement for the masses
00:44:42
, or is it what's the goal?
00:44:43
What's the goal?
00:44:44
I mean maybe the NSCA needs a mission statement for the tour,
00:44:48
or even a target vetting committee.
00:44:50
I don't know, but as these events get bigger, we may have
00:44:58
to talk more about this.
00:45:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they get bigger because of the masses.
00:45:02
You know it's the same 10 or 15 people like you're talking
00:45:06
about it'll be at all these shoots.
00:45:07
But if you can, I bet you zach garetta's won't put on a
00:45:12
regional knowing 150 people gonna show up.
00:45:14
You know what I'm saying, right ?
00:45:16
So I don't.
00:45:18
Speaker 6: I don't know the answer to that yeah, but the
00:45:20
thing of it is is these regionals keep getting harder
00:45:22
and more people are still coming .
00:45:23
We still get more people every year.
00:45:26
The attendance has been up on I mean maybe not from one shoot
00:45:29
to the next, but if you take your five-year average or you
00:45:32
know, whatever you want to call it we are climbing up in terms
00:45:35
of participation every year.
00:45:36
Speaker 3: So either everybody out there is just a glutton for
00:45:39
punishment or people are actually trying to get better I
00:45:42
mean like in all honesty, I mean the goal wasn't to make people
00:45:49
shoot a bad score, um, you know.
00:45:51
But I mean there's, there's people here that compete.
00:45:55
And then when I say here, they were people here last weekend
00:45:57
that compete, that came to compete and you know, even
00:46:02
though the targets were, you know, I mean, zach, be honest,
00:46:08
how far?
00:46:09
I mean I hate the word over the top but how far off were we as
00:46:15
far as that perfect score?
00:46:17
Would you say a pair of 95s, a pair of 96s, a pair of 97s?
00:46:21
How far?
00:46:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think if you can keep your top guys at 190,
00:46:26
that's probably about the perfect difficulty and you
00:46:31
weren't off by much.
00:46:32
Like I said, the win played a much bigger factor than anyone
00:46:38
wants to admit and I mean overall, I'd say the pace, some
00:46:43
of the pace on some of the pairs .
00:46:45
If they were just a report pair or um, what I would say is is a
00:46:52
lot of the birds required you to shoot it just uncomfortably
00:46:55
fast and there's, there's, there's a lot of people that
00:46:59
can't do that, so they're shooting that bird slow and
00:47:01
they're not getting a good shot at the second bird.
00:47:03
But that's only a few stands in total.
00:47:08
I don't think you guys were that far off.
00:47:12
I think I think the weather was a factor and then multiple days
00:47:18
of the same story is what just affected their planning and
00:47:22
their mood and that that that was all part of it.
00:47:25
But how beautiful is forest city ?
00:47:27
I mean, come on, do you have any people?
00:47:29
Do you have any people coming up to me, people in town, all my
00:47:32
I call them my kids, but younger college age guys that
00:47:37
I've coached over the years that came over to savannah for the
00:47:40
time and they're like we get it.
00:47:42
We get why you moved here.
00:47:44
This is beautiful.
00:47:45
This is awesome.
00:47:46
Um, the club was shined up bright.
00:47:49
It, it, it was awesome.
00:47:51
Speaker 2: Zach that grass right there by the clubhouse.
00:47:53
I wanted to go just like do one of those snow angels in the
00:47:57
grass.
00:47:57
You know what I'm saying.
00:47:58
Like it was, like the grass was amazing.
00:48:01
That's the first thing I said when I got there.
00:48:05
Speaker 6: Look at that grass so yeah, I'll put it to you this
00:48:09
way, justin.
00:48:09
I mean the masters was going on that same weekend.
00:48:11
That's kind of what this was for.
00:48:13
I mean, in my opinion, I felt like I was going to a really
00:48:15
pristine club as far as the, the views and everything are
00:48:20
spectacular.
00:48:21
The club is immaculate in every regard from a view standpoint.
00:48:24
And you know what, if I go play Augusta National Golf Club
00:48:27
tomorrow, I don't give a crap if I shoot 91 or 136.
00:48:31
I'm playing Augusta National and that's kind of the viewpoint
00:48:36
I had that whole weekend.
00:48:37
I mean I enjoyed the targets as well, but I mean I would have
00:48:40
enjoyed shooting everything at 80 yards with those views.
00:48:42
Speaker 2: But yeah, man, I liked the course, the food, all
00:48:44
the restaurants we talked about.
00:48:46
You know I heard a lot of people coming up to us saying,
00:48:48
hey, appreciate you telling us where to eat.
00:48:50
You know, all those places were good and, uh, I had a good time
00:48:55
, you know, just had a had a difficult time on the targets.
00:48:58
Speaker 3: You know, I mean this is, we hadn't really let Chip
00:49:01
talk a whole lot.
00:49:02
But you know, chip, I mean how long ago did we start getting
00:49:08
ready for this?
00:49:13
Speaker 4: And how excited were you to have this shoot come here
00:49:14
.
00:49:14
Oh gosh, we started.
00:49:14
We really started trying to prep for this back in like
00:49:17
December, where it's just doing little things here and there.
00:49:20
But we've been getting ready for it for a long time and as
00:49:26
soon as Zach told me he was going to let me set a main event
00:49:29
, I was ecstatic.
00:49:31
I was ready.
00:49:31
I mean, this is really my first big tournament setting a main
00:49:37
event and I was excited for it.
00:49:39
I wanted to do something different.
00:49:40
I wanted to give people targets they'd never seen.
00:49:43
I tried to run a rabbit up the side of a tree but I couldn't
00:49:54
get it to work.
00:49:54
Um, I just I was ready, I'm ready to do something new for
00:49:55
people and I was hoping people would come out and just have a
00:49:57
good time you can tell that there was effort put in the
00:50:00
targets.
00:50:00
Speaker 2: I'll give you that.
00:50:01
You can tell that there was thought put in the targets.
00:50:03
For sure it's not like you didn't try.
00:50:06
You know what I'm saying.
00:50:07
He's he's.
00:50:09
Speaker 3: He set this rabbit up a tree, and I forget who it was
00:50:13
.
00:50:13
They said, uh, you need to go check it out, and so we go over
00:50:17
there.
00:50:17
What did?
00:50:17
What did I tell you chip?
00:50:20
Speaker 4: um, I think you said about, I think you told me like
00:50:24
this is a cool target, but you got to think that 720 people got
00:50:28
to shoot this.
00:50:29
You got to be consistent every single time.
00:50:32
Speaker 2: And you're going to blow the tree up too.
00:50:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, that too.
00:50:35
Yeah, they were going to destroy the tree.
00:50:38
It'd be like the beaver that's behind Chip's house right now
00:50:42
went over there and knocked on a tree about 40 yards away.
00:50:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, chip, you got any negative comments towards
00:50:48
your course?
00:50:49
Speaker 4: You know, actually I've gotten a couple, but I've
00:50:54
actually gotten a lot of positive comments, mainly from
00:50:58
the lower class shooters that I know, and they they loved the
00:51:02
course they shot.
00:51:04
It felt like they shot very well, for how difficult it was.
00:51:07
And they, uh, I have several of them coming back and shooting
00:51:12
it again, yeah, and then, uh, after I got monday morning I got
00:51:18
a phone call and they, uh, somebody from out of town wants
00:51:23
me to come set their course at the same difficulty level level
00:51:26
for them oh, here it starts that starting now well, I think
00:51:34
everybody, I think I think as a whole, I think everybody had a
00:51:38
good time.
00:51:39
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people left beat up, but we've
00:51:42
talked about why.
00:51:43
That is the wind, the fact that it's a regional and the fact
00:51:49
that they want to put on a good show.
00:51:51
I mean that sums it up.
00:51:55
Speaker 3: If I could give anybody advice, it would be.
00:51:57
You know, I've been in this sport since 2005.
00:52:01
Started off as a trapper, you know, and we had trappers that
00:52:07
weren't as well trained as they needed to be.
00:52:10
I remember the first time that I ever trapped was in Texas for
00:52:16
the Texas State 2005.
00:52:18
It was my first trapping job.
00:52:20
Right, we went to school in Southern Illinois, we hopped in
00:52:24
a van, drove all the way to Texas, started pulling for a
00:52:27
prelim for the Texas State, and I can tell you that I was
00:52:30
nervous, as ever.
00:52:34
You know a lot of these shooters and we are talking to a couple
00:52:37
of professionals, but a lot of these shooters and we are
00:52:38
talking to a couple professionals but a lot of these
00:52:40
shooters kind of take that for granted.
00:52:42
You know, if you have never trapped before and when I mean
00:52:45
trapped I mean for a tournament there's just as many jitters in
00:52:50
my body trapping for a tournament as there is when I'm
00:52:54
actually leading off or shooting in a stand, because they're
00:52:57
there not trying to mess up.
00:53:00
We had a phone call from a guy.
00:53:02
He said hey look, I'm not trying to get out of trapping,
00:53:05
but I'm colorblind and I'm not going to be able to see the
00:53:08
target when they're breaking them with this tree background.
00:53:10
You're going to have to put me in a spot where there's a good
00:53:12
solid blue background, where I've got some black-bellied
00:53:16
targets or something, for me to actually see chips, because I
00:53:20
can't see orange, I can't see green, you know.
00:53:23
So you know there was some nerves there and I heard some
00:53:27
shooters you know throughout the weekend say you know, some of
00:53:32
the trappers weren't as good or whatever.
00:53:33
But you know I consider myself an ambassador for the sport for
00:53:39
95% of the time and I don't have any problem going talking to a
00:53:44
trapper anybody else's club and saying, hey look, I've been
00:53:47
doing this a long time, I've been in your shoes.
00:53:50
Before Settle down, here's what you need to do.
00:53:53
This is a quicker way to do it here.
00:53:54
This is how you record the master sheet and it doesn't
00:53:57
affect my game at all.
00:53:59
I heard some people saying that they argue with trappers for
00:54:01
five or 10 minutes over one bird , and those of us that are on
00:54:08
this call we know that that's not how you resolve an issue.
00:54:11
The issue is if the trapper's being stubborn or if you're that
00:54:15
adamant that you hit that target or your squadmate hit
00:54:20
that target, get the course manager involved and it's not
00:54:24
the scorekeeper's responsibility to get them over there If
00:54:28
they're refusing.
00:54:29
A lot of the big guys have everybody's phone number and can
00:54:37
make a phone call and get somebody over there in a very,
00:54:41
very quick time and then it makes everybody look good, not
00:54:45
just on the club side, but it makes you look like you can
00:54:48
handle something a little bit better and not let things get to
00:54:51
you.
00:54:51
I've had numerous situations where I've lost targets because
00:54:58
I didn't look at my scorecard.
00:55:00
It's cost me being on the podium before you know.
00:55:03
Of course I was frustrated, but at the end of the day it was my
00:55:06
fault.
00:55:06
You know I didn't look at my score sheet and I walked away
00:55:10
and I caught it three stations later or two stations later, and
00:55:13
that's not how the game is played.
00:55:15
Speaker 2: You got to think all those guys could be mad, the
00:55:17
shooters could be mad, and then they got to listen to it.
00:55:19
Every time they come up, I mean , it's always good to be nice to
00:55:22
them, you know yeah, and I mean , come on, let's be honest, we
00:55:25
can't do it without them.
00:55:26
Speaker 3: You know, zach and dominic are at the texas state.
00:55:29
If the trappers don't show up tomorrow, what's going to happen
00:55:31
?
00:55:31
I mean, everybody's going to have to step in and trap for
00:55:35
each other, or or their shoot's going to get canceled.
00:55:37
We can't do it without them.
00:55:38
They're, they're the, they're they're the backbone of the
00:55:42
shoot, you know.
00:55:43
So you, you gotta, you gotta appreciate them and thank them
00:55:47
for what they're doing, because they're taking time out of
00:55:49
whatever they were doing to, to to make sure that you have a
00:55:54
good experience and try not to mess up.
00:55:56
And there's a lot of nerves that go in with that.
00:55:58
And you know I'm not just talking about the Southeast
00:56:01
regional I've heard stories and stories and stories of the
00:56:09
umpteen other different shoots that I've been to, that the
00:56:10
trapper screwed me out of this bird, or because they did this,
00:56:13
I did this.
00:56:13
But you know, at the end of the day, you're the one that called
00:56:17
pull, you're the one that pulled the trigger and you're
00:56:19
the one that either lost that target or hit that target.
00:56:22
Speaker 2: Zach, who were the trappers at the shoot.
00:56:25
Speaker 3: So majority of the trappers were from our Forest
00:56:28
City Junior team, either parents or shooters on the team, and
00:56:34
there was just a handful that weren't.
00:56:35
So there was a lot of folks that knew how this game was
00:56:41
played, just based off of experience.
00:56:44
Or we threw a 21-Georgia State shoot.
00:56:49
A lot of the faces were returning faces.
00:56:53
I felt like we had a really good squad of trappers.
00:56:58
We had some that you know were nervous or didn't know what they
00:57:01
were doing.
00:57:01
I was I forget who said it today, but I think Anthony said
00:57:09
that there was a lot of people that knew him based off of the
00:57:12
video the trapper training video there was a lot of trappers
00:57:15
that would look up and be like you're that guy.
00:57:20
But they were all local, they were all tied to the club or to
00:57:24
the junior team in some form or fashion and I think they did a
00:57:30
good job.
00:57:30
I wish we wouldn't have had the delay on Saturday, because it's
00:57:38
not embarrassing, it's just.
00:57:40
We should have found that delay and made a fix on it quick,
00:57:45
because it was a very, very easy fix.
00:57:47
I fixed it in 15 minutes on Sunday morning.
00:57:50
Speaker 2: I'll tell you something else.
00:57:51
That was pretty neat.
00:57:52
I was shooting five stand and Mike Bichaw and John Kent rode
00:57:57
up on the cart or whatever they were riding in and I spoke to
00:58:01
them for a while, asked John how his son was doing and he said
00:58:03
that Mitchell was coming out to the club.
00:58:05
I never got.
00:58:06
I never got to see him, but I know that Beretta did something
00:58:08
big for Mitchell.
00:58:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, they did.
00:58:10
Um, so thanks to Beretta.
00:58:13
You know Mitchell was in a very , very bad car accident coming
00:58:17
from the university of Alabama to shoot his mom, dad, shoot um
00:58:21
at the Seminole cup and uh never made it there, spent uh nearly
00:58:26
a month in the hospital.
00:58:27
Um, he's in a wheelchair right now.
00:58:30
Hopefully he'll be walking by the summertime.
00:58:32
Um, but his gun, his gun got mangled.
00:58:35
Just terribly bad.
00:58:37
I mean, you can make a necklace out of it and that's about it.
00:58:41
Beretta gave him a brand-new 694 to replace the gun that was
00:58:48
mangled.
00:58:49
It's pretty incredible.
00:58:51
A lot of teary eyes that night and just a lot of fun emotions.
00:58:59
Speaker 5: It's a miracle he's here.
00:59:00
I mean, that was as bad of an accident as you can get in.
00:59:06
Speaker 3: The cool thing about Mitchell is he actually showed
00:59:09
up Friday evening and then he came back Saturday and he rode
00:59:11
around with John and since he was going to ride around with
00:59:14
John at the shoot, he brought his shooting bag to put on his
00:59:17
pilas and it was the first time that he unzipped his shooting
00:59:21
bag and his pila case was just absolutely destroyed from the
00:59:26
accident Pulled the glasses out and everything was fine and wore
00:59:30
them around and rode around with John.
00:59:32
Speaker 2: There you go, shout out to pila, right?
00:59:34
Well, we need to get him a new case then, don't we?
00:59:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all he needs.
00:59:38
Everything else was fine.
00:59:39
Speaker 2: Dominic's a good one to ask.
00:59:40
Dominic, we touch everything.
00:59:42
Speaker 3: We didn't really get into.
00:59:43
You know your son shooting bad and I know that we said that it
00:59:47
wasn't the intention for your son to shoot bad, as it wasn't
00:59:51
the intention for anybody else to shoot bad, but else to shoot
00:59:58
bad.
00:59:58
But I hope that they, when they , you know they leave the core,
01:00:00
they, they left savannah and they started headed home and
01:00:01
they got over the frustration that they didn't shoot the score
01:00:03
that they had prepared themselves to shoot.
01:00:05
Um, they go home and they challenge their local club to
01:00:09
throw harder targets, as long as they have more than one course.
01:00:14
You know, because you always have to keep everybody happy, um
01:00:16
, zach knows this more than because you always have to keep
01:00:18
everybody happy.
01:00:18
Zach knows this more than anybody.
01:00:20
But you have to keep everyone happy when it's.
01:00:23
You know your normal day-to-day business and you know, challenge
01:00:28
those guys to throw targets that are just a little bit
01:00:32
uncomfortable for people because you can't get better by
01:00:35
shooting.
01:00:35
You know 25 yard targets all the time, or off speed stuff all
01:00:40
the time you got to throw.
01:00:41
You got to throw stuff that's a little bit testy and edgy.
01:00:44
And I think that you know Zach said it a little bit that the
01:00:48
Southeast they do do that.
01:00:50
I know they do that in Texas.
01:00:51
I know that there's clubs all around this country that do that
01:00:54
.
01:00:54
But if you're not a member of a member of a club that is
01:00:57
willing to do it, just beg them, tell them to do it because
01:01:02
it'll make you a lot better, it'll make you feel comfortable.
01:01:05
Zach was out here grinding it out last night and said he
01:01:11
figured it out and hopefully he does well this weekend.
01:01:13
I know that here recently Zach has said you know as nicely as
01:01:19
he could put it that he likes Chip's targets better than he
01:01:22
does mine.
01:01:22
He's said that you know these are the best set of targets this
01:01:30
club's had since I've become a member here.
01:01:32
You know, and it's been Chip's targets they probably are.
01:01:36
Speaker 5: You know what?
01:01:36
Right now they are, there's no doubt.
01:01:39
And anyone that wants to shoot chips course next week.
01:01:43
I'll be back Monday.
01:01:44
They can come take a look, there you go.
01:01:46
Speaker 3: Go ahead, get that ZK lesson in there.
01:01:50
Speaker 2: You know what my son?
01:01:51
Speaker 6: Hey Justin, your kid's a better shooter now than
01:01:53
he was a week ago.
01:01:54
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
01:01:54
Yeah, go tell him that I've tried to tell him that.
01:01:57
You know, what he's more mad about than anything is.
01:02:00
He went out there and tried to catch a.
01:02:01
There was about a six-foot carp on the side on the bank and he
01:02:05
was out there trying to catch that carp.
01:02:06
I said, son, can we go?
01:02:09
Speaker 1: And he's more mad at that.
01:02:10
Speaker 2: I think that he didn't catch that fish.
01:02:18
Speaker 3: There's there's some big fish in there.
01:02:19
There's some big fish in there, I think.
01:02:20
People saw him several times this week.
01:02:21
I will, I will say, you know.
01:02:22
So I did post on facebook that I I actually got to step away
01:02:25
and shoot 20 gauge sub gauge with with my son, mason, who's
01:02:29
nine, just turned nine back in february, started shooting for
01:02:32
the juniors this year, and this is, you know, it's.
01:02:34
It's pretty incredible, it's.
01:02:36
You know, I've been waiting for this, yeah, when, when we formed
01:02:39
the junior team in 2014, he wasn't even born yet, you know,
01:02:42
and I was doing it, you know, in preparation for this and, and
01:02:48
you know, he went through and shot eric's course and it was
01:02:51
hard.
01:02:51
Um, first station, I shot a four out of six.
01:02:53
Mason shot a three and I was like, oh yeah, here we go, he's
01:02:56
gonna shoot, good, you know.
01:02:57
And then he zeroed the next two stations.
01:02:59
He gets off of the third station and he's crying and I
01:03:03
said what are you crying for?
01:03:04
And he said I'm not good, dad.
01:03:07
And I said, buddy, you just started.
01:03:08
I, I, you know, I didn't shoot in the competition.
01:03:11
I think this is what.
01:03:12
What a lot of kids, you know, other than zach or or the, the
01:03:16
true kids of this sport that are now adults or fathers.
01:03:20
You know I didn't shoot my first registered shoot until
01:03:26
2008.
01:03:27
So you know that was that wasn't long before he was born.
01:03:32
So you know it's sometimes you just gotta, you gotta put in
01:03:37
your time, you gotta understand things a little bit better.
01:03:39
But you know it's sometimes you just gotta, you gotta put in
01:03:39
your time, you gotta understand things a little bit better.
01:03:40
But you know he ended up shooting an 11 and um, you know
01:03:44
we finished the shoot on Sunday.
01:03:46
We went out to the castaway, uh and, and had kind of a
01:03:51
celebration dinner that it was all over and um, I was glad to
01:03:55
see my family for the first time for more than 20 minutes, um,
01:03:59
for for a solid week, and my sister, callie that was running
01:04:04
registration with casey.
01:04:05
She said, mason, you weren't the last place shooter in
01:04:09
e-class and you should have saw his eyes like he just sprouted
01:04:13
up.
01:04:13
I wasn't last, you know, and you know sometimes it's not
01:04:18
always about shooting that high score.
01:04:20
You know, especially if you're a kid, you know I would.
01:04:24
Um, I would love to shoot sporting clays with my dad.
01:04:28
My dad's a good shot, but he, he doesn't shoot sporting clays,
01:04:32
he, he has to work for a living and you know I will always
01:04:37
remember that moment and kid if the kids are listening.
01:04:40
Speaker 2: You know, don't take that for granted, because one
01:04:42
day, either your dad's not going to want to do it or he's not
01:04:45
going to be around anymore, and that is a, that is a, uh, an
01:04:50
experience and a and a moment that I will never, ever forget
01:04:53
as a father, and I hope he doesn't either, and we have a
01:04:56
score to build on, you know yep, you know, when I shoot and I
01:05:01
take bryce pretty much everywhere with me now, maybe
01:05:04
not all of them, but the majority I take him with him,
01:05:07
take him with me, and I find myself paying attention to what
01:05:11
he's doing and trying to talk to him, and and then when I get up
01:05:15
there, I'm like, well, I don't even know what's going on, and
01:05:19
that's fine with me.
01:05:21
I'd rather him try to hit them and do well, and I don't care
01:05:25
what I shoot, I really don't.
01:05:26
So that's the thing that I've noticed about shooting with your
01:05:31
son is that you'll with me.
01:05:34
I just get up there to.
01:05:36
I really want him to have a good time and I'll just figure
01:05:39
out how to have a good time.
01:05:40
You know what I'm saying yeah, absolutely 100.
01:05:44
It's called sacrifice yeah, yeah , yeah, just let's.
01:05:48
Let's go have a good time and I'll watch you.
01:05:51
I always shoot behind him for some I guess, because the way
01:05:53
they have us our names, I don't know what it is but I'm always
01:05:56
shooting behind him.
01:05:56
So I'm always paying to him, making sure he's got his shells,
01:06:00
making sure he's got his ear plugs in, and this, that and
01:06:02
another.
01:06:03
The targets go out and I get up there and I'm like all right,
01:06:06
can I have another show pair please?
01:06:08
Speaker 3: Yeah.
01:06:14
Speaker 2: Yeah Well, you're going to have.
01:06:16
He likes Desi better than Zach.
01:06:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, we all do.
01:06:23
Speaker 3: Chip, you got anything you'd like to say?
01:06:25
Would you like to apologize for throwing anything over the top,
01:06:29
as we heard over the weekend?
01:06:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I apologize that the course was
01:06:36
over the top.
01:06:37
That wasn't my intentions.
01:06:38
I just wanted to throw something new, like I said, and
01:06:43
make sure everyone had a fun time.
01:06:44
It obviously came around and come back to bite me, but I'll
01:06:51
learn from it and next time you can expect some better, softer
01:06:55
quality targets.
01:07:00
Speaker 5: Oh, we don't need to get too soft and I guarantee you
01:07:04
there will be a new next time, I think.
01:07:07
Speaker 2: I think everyone wants to come back no apologies
01:07:09
necessary on our own yeah, well, guys, thank you for spending
01:07:12
some time with me and and talking about this and uh, for
01:07:16
city, I mean, that's you can't get any better, really, you know
01:07:20
.
01:07:20
So I appreciate everybody coming on and everybody that
01:07:23
went.
01:07:23
We we appreciate you going and uh, hope to see you at the next
01:07:28
regional where the targets may be softer.
01:07:30
Speaker 3: Everybody comes back.
01:07:31
I hope you found something good in it.
01:07:32
Um, we, we, we overcame storms.
01:07:37
We, we had a great time.
01:07:39
There was a lot of laughter.
01:07:40
You probably left with a souvenir of an ant bite, you
01:07:46
know I mean there was a lot of good came from the club.
01:07:49
You know the staff.
01:07:52
They worked their butt off.
01:07:53
Chip has a great crew.
01:07:55
We have a lot of members that helped out and I hope that you
01:07:59
know someone noticed that someone or all of you noticed
01:08:03
that you know it was.
01:08:05
It was an army of either staff or membership that that pulled
01:08:10
this thing off and we hope that you had a good time.
01:08:13
Speaker 2: Give us, give us another chance and um, um and
01:08:17
come join us again guys, zach, dominic, y'all shoot good over
01:08:21
there in texas, and and uh, zach and chip and savannah, y'all
01:08:25
get some.
01:08:25
I guess some rest or take it easy for a minute we'll try.
01:08:28
Speaker 5: Good luck, zach and dom thank you, thanks guys,
01:08:31
thank y'all so.
01:08:31
Speaker 3: I'm not a fool.
01:08:32
Outro Music.
